Eccentric medium spiny neuron (eMSN)

Perhasp the key difference is that the psychs in question called their departments psychological medicine, with a great flurry of trumpets and insisted that ME/CFS was perpetuated psychologically. Which means psychodynamically which just means bullshit.

There is no shame in having a neuropsychiatric aspect to a disease. It just means that it affects thinking - which ME/CFS does. The psychs were wrong. They denied there was a neuropsychiatric problem - which for them came under "bio".
 
I am very sorry for (and deeply sympathize with) the suffering you've experienced in having your depression dismissed as being "just" depression. Depression destroys lives and, in its clinical form, is absolutely an "organic illness," one that can be profoundly disabling.
Thank you. Yeah I didn't mean to disparage the seriousness of depression. I have really struggled with it over the years. I think it's fairly likely I have both organic depression and MECFS but since my prodromal onset came at a time when I was profoundly situationally depressed and I was immediately put in the 'depression and anxiety' diagnostic wastebin, it's hard to say. I certainly have situational depression!

I'm drafting an in depth post about my prodromal onset currently as I think it could be an interesting jumping off point for discussion of the issue more widely.
 
Some thoughts on the brain angle, because I'm optimistic about it. (Feel free to move this to the brain cells thread)

So we've come full circle and the psychs were right?
None of the new genetics would imply that ME/CFS is caused by normal day-to-day anxious feelings or low moods, getting stuck in a rut, or stress etc. If someone in your life believes that, they are still totally wrong. The idea that the thoughts in your head cause ME/CFS has been tested to death and not a single study has ever durably improved an objective end point (i.e. step count), never mind one that matters (i.e. being able to work full time again, or seriously exercise etc.) We are pummelled with this idea because it’s a stupid human bias (the fundamental attribution error — assuming other people’s problems are due to their personality) and because its comforting for people to think their health is under their control.

Also: it sucks to feel horribly ill, be unable to think straight, and have someone around you suggest that maybe what you’re experiencing is 'just' anxiety or depression — it’s such a total misunderstanding of what you’re going though, it’s obvious they aren’t really listening, it comes across as condescending. People are wrong when they say that to us and they are still wrong even if ME/CFS turns out to have genetic overlap with anxiety and or depression. The BSP-types think anxiety and depression *cause* ME/CFS, but the genetic connection suggests both are caused by some third thing (something outside our control, like how our synapses use neurotransmitters or how our eccentric medium spiny neurons grew when we were babies).

We’re in the dark ages of neuroscience and so there’s been tons of room for psychologists to blame everything on the patient. Because the brain has been a black box their theories have been unfalsifiable. But that’s changing. Once we can show pwME/CFS have something biologically different going on, the BPS theories are going to look as silly as arguing that someone can cure their scurvy with positive thinking.

I very much agree with this:
I had actually thought that [depression being biological] was fairly well established, however widespread the ignorance and prejudice against the "lazy" and "weak" individuals afflicted by it might be [...] the takeaway should be recognition that these people have as little to offer those suffering from depression as they do pwME. Their ideas and practices are also harmful to the depressed.
In my dream world: we cure ME/CFS, and if we need to drag depression and anxiety into the land of real, falsifiable science to do it, that's all the better.
 
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if it’s the same as depression, why don't antidepressants cure it or the sufferers feel depressed?I agreed to start Sertraline and in under a year, I’d declined.
We have the ammunition to fight this BPS stuff already.
My lived experience also fights the BPS stuff.

I had generalized anxiety disorder. when I was 16. It was treated with sertraline. I still have anxiety and panic attacks, as I did before GAD as well. It's a part of myself. But I'm no longer at that disordered level. That is a big difference.

I have been on sertraline since then. When I got sick, lots of things were going right in my life. I did a cool summer semester in a remote location. I was going to start a new bachelor's program. I was doing well. And I got sick then, not during my anxiety disorder.

My psychologist has seen me since I was 15, before I even developped GAD. If I was going through a period of worse mental health or psychosomatic illness, she would have been able to recognize it. She kept on encouraging me to see doctors. She knows it's not something she can treat, compared to the BPS people.

It is distressing to see the possible links with depression and anxiety when we have been told that is what we are suffering from. It's always been a dismissal, just as it's a dismissal of the seriousness of depression and anxiety.

We have to stay focused on the neurological aspects of these illnesses. And, it may be that there are some connections with depression and anxiety here, but not in other places. Paolo's draft clustering of diseases places it far away from psychiatric diseases.
 
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