Earseeds, Acuseeds

Peter Trewhitt said:
It is also of concern that the ‘dragons’ have previously with other companies/medical products asked questions about accuracy of any medical claims or any evidence for their efficacy, but did not do so with these ‘ear seeds’.

...This ear seeds business is retailing at an enormous mark up a product freely available from a number of other retailers at a fraction of the cost. This business had no exclusivity and at any point in time they could be undercut by other businesses getting in on the act.

I do feel that the BBC and the Dragons also have questions to answer about why they seem to have treated this business differently to others. I would argue that this apparent giving the ear seeds an easier ride than other companies gives the BBC further ethical responsibility.
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Sara Davies: So what does this..? What does one of your kits retail for?

Giselle: £30.

Sara Davies: And what does it cost you to produce?

Giselle: £3.

Sara Davies: I like them sort of mark-ups! You're talking my language in terms of profitability.

(...)

Sara Davies: So do you want to give me the first 12 months', full-year sales and profitability?

Giselle: Yeah. £92,000 in revenue.

Sara Davies: Wow. For your first year?

Giselle: With £74,000 gross profit.

Sara Davies: That's cos you've got a wonderful gross profit margin. And your net?

Giselle: 64,000.

------------------------------------------------

Sara Davies: And what rigorous scientific evidence is there that supports the efficacy of ear seeds for the conditions you mention on your website?

No, Sarah Davies did not ask Giselle that question and neither did the other Dragons.
 
Dx Revision Watch said:
Sara Davies: So what does this..? What does one of your kits retail for?

Giselle: £30.

Sara Davies: And what does it cost you to produce?

Giselle: £3.

Sara Davies: I like them sort of mark-ups! You're talking my language in terms of profitability.
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I don’t understand why they are so excited as any company retailing this product, given as soon as you invest in marketing any number of already established companies could simply piggyback and retail the product at a fraction of the cost. This is not a sustainable business model as the more successful it is the more likely you will be under cut. Any business relying primarily on ear seeds would have no long term sustainability. (Regardless of any issues around advertising standards.)
 
If it's not already been posted, here is the Wiki entry for Auriculotherapy

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Auriculotherapy

[...]

History and development[edit]
French neurologist Paul Nogier invented auriculotherapy in 1957.[5][6] Nogier developed a phrenological method of projection of a fetal Homunculus on the ear and published what he called the "Vascular Autonomic Signal" which measured a change in the amplitude of the pulse.[6] That mechanism would only produce a signal upon the introduction of new information to the electromagnetic field of the patient.[6] Nogier cited a 'principle of matching resonance' which he could use the vascular autonomic signal to detect the active points of the auricular microsystem.[6]

Nogier's Auricular acupuncture was introduced to China in 1958.[7][8]​


So, the concept of "ear mapping" is not exactly an ancient Traditional Chinese Medicine concept.
 
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Dx Revision Watch said:
If it's not already been posted, here is the Wiki entry for Auriculotherapy

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Auriculotherapy

[...]

History and development[edit]
French neurologist Paul Nogier invented auriculotherapy in 1957.[5][6] Nogier developed a phrenological method of projection of a fetal Homunculus on the ear and published what he called the "Vascular Autonomic Signal" which measured a change in the amplitude of the pulse.[6] That mechanism would only produce a signal upon the introduction of new information to the electromagnetic field of the patient.[6] Nogier cited a 'principle of matching resonance' which he could use the vascular autonomic signal to detect the active points of the auricular microsystem.[6]

Nogier's Auricular acupuncture was introduced to China in 1958.[7][8]​


So, the concept of "ear mapping" is not exactly an ancient Traditional Chinese Medicine concept.
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Just checking that I wasn’t mistaken about something I said earlier, they did claim on the program that it was related to acupuncture no?
 
Ash said:
Just checking that I wasn’t mistaken about something I said earlier, they did claim on the program that it was related to acupuncture no?
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earseeds1.jpg



Giselle: "Ear seeds are an ancient Chinese medicine tool based on the principles of acupuncture, but without the needles. They are tiny beads which stick onto the ear, applying pressure onto nerve endings. They send signals to the brain and body to relax the nervous system, release endorphins and naturally relieve pain."

[...]

Male voiceover: "And it seems Sara Davies is no stranger to the Chinese treatment."

Giselle does not say that the concept of ear mapping was proposed in 1957 and exported to China. A model ear with mapping points is displayed along with packets of the product.
 
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Peter Trewhitt said:
This business had no exclusivity
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Well, except that it linked ear seeds with recovery from ME. None of the low-cost suppliers could get away with that because they have to abide by the rules. This business gained a huge competitive advantage over them by calling it entertainment instead of advertising, and doing it on the BBC.

The advantage and exclusivity wouldn't last for long, but as long as it brought in a rush of orders, it wouldn't need to. Bank the money and move on.
 
We need a biomarker.

The Dragons bought into her warm fuzzy feel good story of recovery, not the ear seeds, they have no clue what M.E is.

Giselle's 'mindset':
"I think, find a community that's really supportive that can actually understand what you're going through so you're not alone. I think look at recovery stories, there are so many out there. If you're listening to this podcast, you're already aware of all these recovery stories. Listen to them, believe in them, it will give you so much hope and I think visualizing your future is really important. I used to meditate every day and visualize myself running on a beach . . ."

I'm not posting the youtube video b/c it's too annoying.
 
Andy said:
HARD TO BELIEVE: In Kent (UK), the NHS advocates and pays for pure quackery

"After the nationwide huha created by the BBC’s promotion of auriculotherapy and AcuSeeds, it comes as a surprise to learn that, in Kent (UK), the NHS seems to advocate and provide this form of quackery."

https://edzardernst.com/2024/01/har...the-nhs-advocates-and-pays-for-pure-quackery/
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Not at all hard to believe. I've been saying this for years, but the natural outcome of the biopsychosocial ideology and the destruction of all validity of so-called evidence-based medicine is the gradual erosion of the line between scientific and alternative medicine, to the point where they sort of merge together to become one. We're very close to having guru as an official title in health care.

There is only going to be more of this until the medical profession wakes up about the monster they created. But I still think that this only happens, and sooner rather than later, with AI basically marking all of it as complete pseudoscience and not caring one bit about feelings and interests. Then it'll still be years of BS but it will eventually die down.
 
Dx Revision Watch said:
Ear seed therapy has been demonstrated to considerably improve or even eradicate some of these problems in some patients. The treatment is safe and gentle and once started you may be able to manage to apply the ear seeds yourself at home, reducing the number of times you need to visit the hospital or clinic.
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This is actually a good example of how a seemingly harmless pseudoscience can be harmful. They talk about reducing the visits to clinics or hospitals, so there are visits to clinics and hospitals. The same with all the useless rehabilitation pseudoscience out there, it involves a lot of trips to medical facilities.

And nowadays trips to medical facilities basically involve the highest risk of respiratory infections out there. And it's inevitable that as a result of some of those visits, some people got COVID or another respiratory infection, brought it home, and either suffered significant illness, or gave it to someone, with no doubt a certain number of major disability and deaths as a result, which could never be traced back to a visit to a health facility so that someone can stick something on your ear, or be coached into doing something that almost no one ever needs to be coached in.

The banality of evil. It's usually ordinary people doing things they know and understand little about, just doing their job, for no reason that ever makes sense.
 
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If you feel that you have been taken advantage of involving a fake Dragons’ Den endorsement in a Facebook ad, please report the company or product page to Facebook and contact your credit card company as soon as possible if you have given your credit card number".

https://www.cbc.ca/dragonsden/articles/fake-dragons-den-ads

LOL
 
Curious (and sorry if someone else has asked/commented, too many posts to read through from today), I wonder if 'compliance' will mean they have to contact all those with outstanding orders/recent purchases, to advise that they were falsely advertised and give the option to not proceed with the purchase/get a refund.
 
Peter Trewhitt said:
I don’t understand why they are so excited as any company retailing this product, given as soon as you invest in marketing any number of already established companies could simply piggyback and retail the product at a fraction of the cost. This is not a sustainable business model as the more successful it is the more likely you will be under cut. Any business relying primarily on ear seeds would have no long term sustainability. (Regardless of any issues around advertising standards.)
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Indeed this is quite bizarre. The business side of this deal is atrocious, it rests entirely on hype and branding for something that isn't a luxury item and branding is irrelevant. There is zero possibility of exclusiveness, the raw product is available in bulk and eventually the hype will die down. Quickly at that. And they invested rather small amounts, so this is a business that will only ever see, maybe, a maximum lifetime net profit of about 1M. Is this really what the show is about? This is a very small business with very little potential, zero innovation or even the possibility of significant expansion.

I find it hard to believe that this is fully organic and not at least a little bit forced.
 
I wonder if the Dragons can pull out of the deal when they realize that they've been snookered by an 'elevator pitch".

An elevator pitch is a brief (think 30 seconds!) way of introducing yourself, getting across a key point or two, and making a connection with someone. It's called an elevator pitch because it takes roughly the amount of time you'd spend riding an elevator with someone.
 
rvallee said:
This is actually a good example of how a seemingly harmless pseudoscience can be harmful. They talk about reducing the visits to clinics or hospitals, so there are visits to clinics and hospitals. The same with all the useless rehabilitation pseudoscience out there, it involves a lot of trips to medical facilities.

And nowadays trips to medical facilities basically involve the highest risk of respiratory infections out there. And it's inevitable that as a result of some of those visits, some people got COVID or another respiratory infection, brought it home, and either suffered significant illness, or gave it to someone, with no doubt a certain number of major disability and deaths as a result, which could never be traced back to a visit to a health facility so that someone can stick something on your ear, or be coached into doing something that almost no one ever needs to be coached in.

The banality of evil. It's usually ordinary people doing things they know and understand little about, just doing their job, for no reason that ever makes sense.
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Yes sir.
 
Mij said:
I wonder if the Dragons can pull out of the deal when they realize that they've been snookered by an 'elevator pitch".

An elevator pitch is a brief (think 30 seconds!) way of introducing yourself, getting across a key point or two, and making a connection with someone. It's called an elevator pitch because it takes roughly the amount of time you'd spend riding an elevator with someone.
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There’s one Dragon who snapped this one up, and he loves this shit, it’s his thing, so I’d be very surprised if he’d pull out.

Probably a good business decision this one, in a society that collectively hates a disabled/chronically ill person, refusing to think positively enough not to be disabled/chronically ill any longer.

Just hurrying up and heal or die already.

Huh?
Have you really tried, tried everything?
Really?
What about the ear seed thingy?
Ahh well there you go.
Come back to me when you’re really and truly ready to heal. Okay?
Huh?
No I don’t wanna hear it, nothing is free in this life.

The fact that ME is in the top tier of despised patient groups can’t hurt either can it?

So from that angle I’d say the grifters struck gold with this one.

However you never know, something might go our way somewhere down the line… There’s always a first time. Important to always cultivate a healthy positive attitude huh sweeties?
 
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Interesting

https://www.cbc.ca/m/dragonsden/rich/business-tips/do-all-deals-get-done.html

Not all deals you see on TV end up closing post-show. The question is WHY?

I’ve been in the venture business for almost 10 years, and like the Dragons, I’ve seen deals go sideways for a lot of different reasons. The same is true with deals done on TV (even more so). Here are the top five reasons a deal might not close after a handshake in the Den:

3. After the taping, but before the show airs, the entrepreneurs get cold feet and no longer want the deal. (Maybe after reading some of your forum posts? :)
 
@Mij, I think you had problems with the cut and paste. Here are the full five reasons:
  1. During Due Diligence (the process by which the investors corroborate the facts shared with them in the Den) facts presented by pitchers don’t hold up (e.g. the pitcher said he had a patent, but really all he had was a patent pending).
  2. After the show airs, but before the deal closes, the entrepreneurs get a better offer. (Last year the underwear guys got a much better offer after the show hit the air).
  3. After the taping, but before the show airs, the entrepreneurs get cold feet and no longer want the deal. (Maybe after reading some of your forum posts? :)
  4. The shareholders of the company (who are usually the original pre-Dragon investors) don’t agree with the deal management has struck with the Dragons.
  5. The Dragons learn facts that undermine the investment. (For example, during due diligence, the pitcher turns out to be extremely hard to work with).
 
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