Earseeds, Acuseeds

Binkie4 said:
Another article on The Skeptic this time by Michael Marshall on developments following the ear seeds promotion, the failure of the BBC to act responsibly and Dragons' Den promotion of other products claiming to enhance health.

https://www.skeptic.org.uk/2024/02/...ckery-problem-that-goes-far-beyond-ear-seeds/

It is particularly concerned with the role of the BBC to whom Michael Marshall has written an open letter concerning other inaccurate claims about alternative health products in Dragons' Den.
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Another excellent article.
 
Binkie4 said:
Another article on The Skeptic this time by Michael Marshall on developments following the ear seeds promotion, the failure of the BBC to act responsibly and Dragons' Den promotion of other products claiming to enhance health.

https://www.skeptic.org.uk/2024/02/...ckery-problem-that-goes-far-beyond-ear-seeds/

It is particularly concerned with the role of the BBC to whom Michael Marshall has written an open letter concerning other inaccurate claims about alternative health products in Dragons' Den.
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Pretty good, and right on that it's part of a broader problem. The author says they have more to pursue on it.

I wonder at what point does this misleading advertising get countered by the growing use of "the treatment actually is the placebo" in biopsychosocial ideology, simply claiming that although they can't really point to a credible mechanism, they have reports and pragmatic trials where people report feeling better, that it "can be helpful to some", which is basically the standard that is applied to the model of psychosocial rehabilitation. Literally in those words, depending on where in the motte and bailey fallacy they currently stand in.

It doesn't work for everyone. We don't know why it works. We're not saying that it works, we're just implying it (and definitely saying so in private and promoting it as such, including to MDs, even at professional conferences). But if it can be useful to some, how can it be denied to those it could help? This is the current biopsychosocial evidence-based medicine, and at some point someone has to actually use it as a defense of their own alternative medicine based on pseudoscience, by simply pointing to the vast mass of medically-validated and -promoted alternative medicine based on pseudoscience that explicitly aims, and fails, to induce a placebo response.
 
rvallee said:
Pretty good, and right on that it's part of a broader problem. The author says they have more to pursue on it.

I wonder at what point does this misleading advertising get countered by the growing use of "the treatment actually is the placebo" in biopsychosocial ideology, simply claiming that although they can't really point to a credible mechanism, they have reports and pragmatic trials where people report feeling better, that it "can be helpful to some", which is basically the standard that is applied to the model of psychosocial rehabilitation. Literally in those words, depending on where in the motte and bailey fallacy they currently stand in.

It doesn't work for everyone. We don't know why it works. We're not saying that it works, we're just implying it (and definitely saying so in private and promoting it as such, including to MDs, even at professional conferences). But if it can be useful to some, how can it be denied to those it could help? This is the current biopsychosocial evidence-based medicine, and at some point someone has to actually use it as a defense of their own alternative medicine based on pseudoscience, by simply pointing to the vast mass of medically-validated and -promoted alternative medicine based on pseudoscience that explicitly aims, and fails, to induce a placebo response.
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Yeah I can see this happening.
 
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...000-orders-appearing-BBC-sold-three-days.html

Dragons' Den entrepreneur who faced backlash over her 'snake oil' ear seeds that can 'cure ME' reveals she has received nearly 30,000 orders after appearing on BBC show and sold out of 'everything' within three days
  • Giselle Boxer also said she had received 'thousands of pre-orders' after the show
By ARTHUR PARASHAR and MIRIAM KUEPPER

PUBLISHED: 19:23, 12 February 2024 | UPDATED: 19:45, 12 February 2024

A Dragons' Den entrepreneur who faced a backlash over her 'snake oil' ear seeds which she claimed could 'cure ME' has revealed that she had had nearly 30,000 orders since appearing on the BBC show.

Giselle Boxer, 31, from Sheffield, also revealed that her company Acu Seeds 'sold out of everything' and had received 'thousands of pre-orders' just three days after the Dragon's Den episode she was featured in aired...

...Boxer wrote on her Instagram page: 'Wow, what a crazy four weeks it has been since my episode went live on Dragon's Den.[...] I had no idea of the impact that the episode would have on my business and I'm only just coming up for air.

'In the last four weeks, we have received nearly 30,000 orders, 10,000+ customer emails and 50,000 new social media followers.'

'I have been working closely with Steven Bartlett to put in place new processes and support to operate at this new level. I thank you all for your patience and understanding as the business grows,' the entrepreneur added...

----------------

There are 216 comments, mostly negative. So if Giselle fulfils all 30,000 orders, she'll gross around £900,000 on a product she buys in at £3 a unit and resells for £30.
 
Perhaps someone could suggest to her that in recompense for the harm she has done she donate all the profit from the first week's sales after the program went out to biomedical ME research.
Or alternatively that she close the company down and return everyone's money.
 
Have we got this one:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/...ns-Den-star-invests-lifestyle-businesses.html

How Steven Bartlett's podcast became a platform for controversial health 'charlatans': Diary of a CEO slammed for championing misinformation - as Dragons' Den star invests in more lifestyle businesses
By BRIDIE PEARSON-JONES FOR MAILONLINE

PUBLISHED: 16:00, 7 February 2024 | UPDATED: 16:08, 7 February 2024

A personal trainer has branded Steven Bartlett 'the biggest factor of nutrition misinformation on the planet' and slammed the businessman for 'platforming charlatans' on his podcast.

Speaking on the Chat S*** Get Cancelled podcast, Cáelán Tierney, a Glasgow-based fitness expert said that Mr Bartlett has access to the 'best dietitians on the planet' but chooses instead to speak to 'conspiracy theorists'.

It comes as Mr Bartlett invested in 'snake oil salesman' Giselle Boxer, who runs ear seed company AcuSeeds. Her appearance on Dragons' Den caused anger among the M.E. community as the product were marketed as helping to recover from the condition.

He has also invested in a number of alternative health companies after making his millions in the digital space...
 
rvallee said:
I wonder at what point does this misleading advertising get countered by the growing use of "the treatment actually is the placebo" in biopsychosocial ideology, simply claiming that although they can't really point to a credible mechanism, they have reports and pragmatic trials where people report feeling better, that it "can be helpful to some", which is basically the standard that is applied to the model of psychosocial rehabilitation. Literally in those words, depending on where in the motte and bailey fallacy they currently stand in.
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Regardless of how laughably bad this study is, and despite the claims of placebo being untested in conversion disorder, this is not the only one:

Harnessing Placebo Effects for the Treatment of Functional Cognitive Disorder: A Feasibility Pilot Study 2024 Burke, Perez et al

It's not as if the actual details matter one bit here. This is the same piss in the same bottles with the labels switched.

Reasonably speaking, would any of the psychosomatic ideologues find this wrong here? On what basis? If sticking prickly things on your ears 'activates' the placebo effect, how could it be any wrong, or any different from their stuff? From looking at videos of forest walking? Or from talking in a group with some instructor BSing about mind-body crap? Or jumping on a circle and yelling STOP at your symptoms?

I am once again reminded of Simon Wessely who said something like "there is only one functional disorder", the labels are irrelevant this is all ye old conversion disorder, and responded to someone asking him about placebo response from PACE being open label with subjective questionnaires saying something like "the placebo is one of the most powerful interventions we have".
 
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Steven Bartlett's brother Jason has resigned as a director of Acuseeds:


https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...ds-Steven-Bartlett-brother-quits-directo.html

Mystery over Dragons' Den firm accused of selling 'snake oil ear seeds that can cure ME' as investor Steven Bartlett's brother quits as a director

Dragon's Den star Stephen Bartlett appears to have withdrawn from the controversial 'ear seeds' company after the backlash which followed claims that they could 'cure' ME.

His brother and business partner Jason joined the board of the company in January and in a recent social media post, Ms Boxer said she was 'working closely' with Stephen Bartlett, 31, as her business boomed.

But following hundreds of complaints to the BBC and to Ofcom, Jason Bartlett has now quit as a director - with documents at Companies House showing he quit on February 14...


https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/14332155/officers

EAST HEALING LTD

Company number 14332155

2 officers / 1 resignation

BOXER, Giselle Helene Elizabeth


BARTLETT, Jason

Role RESIGNED
Director

Appointed on
19 January 2024

Resigned on
14 February 2024
 
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This most recent Daily Mail report continues to includes information on ME from the NHS page:

What is myalgic encephalomyelitis (ME)?

Also known as Chronic Fatigue Syndrome (CFS), ME can affect anyone, but is most common in women in their mid 20s to mid
40s.

The most noticeable symptom is extreme tiredness, but others include problems sleeping, joint or muscle pain, headaches, flu-like symptoms, and a fast or irregular heartbeat.

Treatments include cognitive behavioural therapy (CBT), specific exercises, or medication to target nausea, pain or issues with sleeping.

Source: NHS​
 
I can't envisage her business weathering this publicity and mounting customer dissatisfaction with the product, refunds and unfulfilled orders.

Perhaps in future the BBC will carry out due diligence over the companies it promotes via the Dragons' Den programme.
 
Dx Revision Watch said:
Perhaps in future the BBC will carry out due diligence over the companies it promotes via the Dragons' Den programme.
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Some of the companies that get offers don't end up getting funding. The due diligence is left to the dragons to do after they make their televised offer. Perhaps the BBC should run a parallel series of 'these companies turned out to be duds once the dragons sent their accountants in, and these companies the dragons invested in ended up failing and losing the dragons money'. If they don't do that, the whole series is a sham and just pointless entertainment.
But I also agree that the BBC has a responsibility not to include companies that make health claims, particularly those that claim to treat disease, not just 'wellness'.
 
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BBC bosses issue warning to Dragons' Den stars over strict guidelines after on air breach
Dragons' Den stars have be warned about strict BBC guidelines in the wake of recent outrage.

The state-funded broadcaster has admitted budding entrepreneurs have been reminded of the "clear guidelines" regarding their commercial activity while appearing on the hit show. The warning comes as several business wannabes have been accused of breaching broadcasting rules after appearing in front of the Dragons.

Over recent weeks, several candidates have been using social media to flog their products and discount codes as their episode of Dragons Den aired - a big breach of the BBC's editorial guidelines. All product placements and adverts must be disclosed and editorially judtsifed before appearing on TV, the BBC's guidelines states.
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Last month, the BBC reinstated a controversial episode of Dragons' Den on iPlayer just days on from axing it from the streaming platform. The episode from January 18 had Giselle Boxer saying she used "diet, acupuncture, Chinese herbs and ear seeds" to get better from M.E. She made a product called Acu Seeds from this.

Giselle's claims sparked outrage from BBC viewers and Action for ME wrote to some important people in the government. They were worried because it seemed like Giselle's product was being sold as a real cure. The BBC took the episode off iPlayer and on January 25th, they said: "We're taking the concerns raised seriously, so we are reviewing the episode and therefore it's currently not available on iPlayer."

But now, you can watch the third episode of the show's 21st series again on iPlayer since 29th January. The BBC has edited the episode and added a warning before you watch it. They say: "This programme has been edited since broadcast to clarify aspects of the Acu Seeds pitch. Advice should always be sought from a qualified healthcare provider about any health concerns."
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BBC bosses issue warning to Dragons' Den stars over strict guidelines after on air breach (msn.com)
 
In North America, a campfire story is a form of oral storytelling performed around an open fire at night, typically in the wilderness, largely connected with the telling of stories having supernatural motifs or elements of urban legend.
 
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