1. UC Berkeley is crowdfunding to support another year of David Tuller's work. To donate click here.
    Dismiss Notice
  2. To read our 'News in Brief' post for w/c 15th April click here.
    Dismiss Notice

Duvet woman versus action man: the gendered aetiology of Chronic Fatigue Syndrome according to English newspapers, 2019, Tobbell et al

Discussion in 'PsychoSocial ME/CFS Research' started by Andy, Apr 17, 2019 at 9:43 AM.

  1. Andy

    Andy Committee Member & Outreach

    Messages:
    5,858
    Likes Received:
    43,647
    Location:
    Hampshire, UK
    Paywalled at https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/14680777.2019.1595694
    Sci Hub, https://sci-hub.se/10.1080/14680777.2019.1595694
     
  2. Trish

    Trish Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    11,305
    Likes Received:
    62,729
    Location:
    UK
    OK, I'm a feminist, and the Journal is called 'Feminist media studies' so I suppose they felt obliged to say they had done the study 'from a constructionist feminist perspective'. But surely a study should be done from a neutral perspective looking at whether articles have gender related differences, rather than going in with a fixed perspective.
     
  3. Sly Saint

    Sly Saint Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    2,808
    Likes Received:
    23,484
    Location:
    UK
    it seems to be coming from the angle that CFS/ME is a mental health issue that is stigmatised (like other mental health disorders). The fact that the genders are treated differently is almost irrelevent in this context.
     
  4. Hutan

    Hutan Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    3,936
    Likes Received:
    17,974
    It's qualitative research, with all the inherent biases that that implies.

    But, given that, it was an interesting read.

    That suggests that only two of the personal narratives featured men. That isn't really enough to draw such firm conclusions about the comparisons (the duvet women versus the action men)

    In the articles about women:

    It's nice to see an analysis of how past medical research efforts (or lack of them) are mis-represented: (SlySaint, I reckon the authors are on the fence about whether ME/CFS is a mental health issue.)

    Male representation:

    Female representation:

    I think it was a good idea to review representations of ME/CFS in the media. It's a shame the samples weren't bigger, in order for the conclusion about the representations of men to have a stronger basis and so that some conclusions about how representations have changed over time could have been made.

    I think there is quite a lot more that can be said about representations of ME/CFS in the media and I hope researchers will do more work on the broader topic.
     
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2019 at 10:59 AM
  5. adambeyoncelowe

    adambeyoncelowe Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    1,365
    Likes Received:
    9,149
    It's a media journal with some research elements not a science journal, per se, so it's not going to be written with the same standards as a scientific journal.

    Specifically, the 'constructionist feminist perspective' is a statement of framework for the argument that will follow. For example, you might do the same paper with a Marxist framework.

    It seems pointless to peer review this stuff, because it's more suited to academic textbooks, but I suppose research publishing is a big industry now.

    Media journals (and humanities journals in general) are mainly to publish theses, even if they use research methods in those theses. These are arguments, not scientific research. They might use quantitative and qualitative data for certain papers, but this isn't the kind of paper you'd use at NICE; it's something that would get used in humanities academia for university students to use in their essays.

    From the journal's own mission statement:
    (emphasis mine)

    ETA: The feminist framework is clearly the critical part. The empirical bit is the data trawling which will service the critical part. But it looks like the priority is the critical (i.e., argument-based) element rather than the empirical element.
     
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2019 at 11:26 AM
    rvallee, Trish, MEMarge and 2 others like this.
  6. Trish

    Trish Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    11,305
    Likes Received:
    62,729
    Location:
    UK
    I haven't read the paper, so this comment isn't about its content but a more general point about which ME sufferers get their stories told in the media and why.

    The following is a personal anecdote that may or may not be representative:

    Having done one of the ME show interviews, which are sponsored by the ME association, I was contacted some months later by their media person looking for people they could use in press releases with photos. I was specifically asked how old I and my daughter are, and when I told the media person we are late 60's and late 30's he lost interest.

    He said he was doing the press release with the particular slant of it being an illness that hits young people. The press release and articles that followed all featured photogenic young women.

    I offered to send photos and information for future use and he never got back to me. To be honest I was relieved - I have no desire to be trashed in the media.
     
  7. adambeyoncelowe

    adambeyoncelowe Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    1,365
    Likes Received:
    9,149
    That's really weird. Your daughter, especially, is slap bang in the middle of the second age group cluster.
     
  8. James Morris-Lent

    James Morris-Lent Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    376
    Likes Received:
    2,586
    Location:
    United States
    I would be curious to see how patterns have changed recently.
    The articles I can recall reading (in the last few years) mostly follow the pattern of either:
    -Young person (more often female), active in [sport] and/or [art hobby], wanted to become [idealistic career], tragically cut down before the prime of life.
    *or*
    -Mom who is tragically unable to care for her children very much.

    I suppose the second one is pretty gendered, but not in any particularly offensive way.

    ...
    I would imagine that the farther back you go the more sexist the articles become.
     
    Chezboo, ukxmrv, Trish and 3 others like this.
  9. WillowJ

    WillowJ Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    406
    Likes Received:
    1,766
    General comment:

    I haven't met many men who feel their ME is not stigmatized.

    What I have noticed is that I was able to relate the discriminatory way that my ME is viewed to many discriminatory events in my life that appear to be targeted at my gender.

    Of course, there are many things that people like to discriminate against, and different people will have a different set.

    About media representations:

    I actually noticed the same thing from the parents in Forgotten Plague. Parents of a man patient spoke about their son missing a career/ life in general /sports or some things like that, while parents of a woman patient said that their daughter should be "getting married and making babies."

    I noticed because my own parents were always more interested in whether I got married and made babies than whether I had a career and life in general. While I always wanted to travel and have a career.

    As it turned out, I did neither.
     
  10. Londinium

    Londinium Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    200
    Likes Received:
    1,964
    True, which is why I am very circumspect about what I call my health problems at work. That said, I do recognise a gender bias however: I still remember a (woman) GP telling me "no, you're genuinely ill, not like those women who just refuse to get out of bed".
     
    Trish, MEMarge, andypants and 3 others like this.
  11. Trish

    Trish Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    11,305
    Likes Received:
    62,729
    Location:
    UK
    Maybe they had enough people and didn't need us anyway. I'm not complaining - I don't want to be in the media, and I wouldn't put my daughter through the stress of it on her own.
     
    Andy and adambeyoncelowe like this.
  12. Estherbot

    Estherbot Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    143
    Likes Received:
    1,015
    Author information
    Rebecca Murray

    Rebecca Murray is a post-doctoral researcher affiliated with the Department of Psychology at The University of Huddersfield. Her work uses social media to enable the participation of chronically ill people in research. E-mail: Rebecca.murray@hud.ac.uk
    Katy Day

    Katy Day is a senior lecturer in psychology at Leeds Beckett University. Katy is a critical social and feminist psychologist. Her research focuses on gender and class identities and the gendered and classed dimensions of body management practices, body and eating distress and family food work. E-mail: K.day@leedsbackett.ac.uk
    Jane Tobbell

    Jane Tobbell is a University Teaching Fellow at The University of Huddersfield. Her research work focuses on the construction of identity as the result of participation in different communities. E-mail: j.tobbell@hud.ac.uk
     
  13. adambeyoncelowe

    adambeyoncelowe Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    1,365
    Likes Received:
    9,149
    Interesting. It's a weird mix, I have to say. The journal seems a bit muddled. Critical theory + scientific research doesn't really seem like a good pairing to me. They do different things. The first is a 'what if', academic exercise, whereas the second is a 'this is what we found' situation.

    If you're looking for empirical evidence, then using a feminist framework is irrelevant. The data is the data. Perhaps they've tacked it on to meet the paper's remit because they couldn't get it published elsewhere?

    Critical theory isn't usually concerned with objective truths but rather with different approaches to reading or understanding a text. Combining this with scientific research that seeks objective truths would only seem to undermine the science part.

    You'll see lots of undergrads using Freudian theory in their English papers, for example, not because it's accurate or they believe it but because it's a framework they can write about enough to score points on essays. I don't think many of those students take it seriously. Likewise, half the ones using Marxist frameworks are not communist, or even socialist. Maybe this journal missed the memo?
     
    Trish likes this.
  14. rvallee

    rvallee Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    1,095
    Likes Received:
    9,616
    Location:
    Canada
    I'm sorry: what? Where? When? Did it happen in total secrecy? Or not at all?

    Uh, sorry but: GTFO.
     
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2019 at 4:48 PM
  15. Diluted-biscuit

    Diluted-biscuit Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    263
    Likes Received:
    1,501
    Certainly helps them to control the outcome. I guess at least they write their bias for everyone to see.
     
    adambeyoncelowe and Trish like this.
  16. Wonko

    Wonko Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    2,202
    Likes Received:
    16,548
    Location:
    UK
    GFTO?

    Yes, I've googled it but none of the results fit.

    So does it mean

    "Great Find, That's Obvious"?

    or

    "Gobsmacked, Freakish, Totally Offensive"?
     
  17. adambeyoncelowe

    adambeyoncelowe Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    1,365
    Likes Received:
    9,149
    Get the fuck out.
     
    Chezboo, Trish, rvallee and 1 other person like this.
  18. Wonko

    Wonko Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    2,202
    Likes Received:
    16,548
    Location:
    UK
    Thank you.

    That is not an answer that google came up with.
     
  19. rvallee

    rvallee Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    1,095
    Likes Received:
    9,616
    Location:
    Canada
    Damn, typo :p
     
  20. TiredSam

    TiredSam Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    5,364
    Likes Received:
    25,963
    What a whole load of utter bollocks. The kind of drivel the cultural studies teacher on my parallel course tries to get her students to spout but fails miserably. All the women with CFS I read about in the tabloids are either kick-boxers, burlesque dancers, or starting a career in modelling or as a therapist having overcome adversity with their strength of character and are getting ready to spread their positive message.

    Yep, everything's a construction.

    I guessed.
     
    Art Vandelay, Chezboo, EzzieD and 5 others like this.

Share This Page