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David Tuller: Trial By Error: My Letter to Parliament’s Science and Technology Committee

Discussion in 'General ME/CFS News' started by Indigophoton, Jul 11, 2018 at 8:38 PM.

  1. Indigophoton

    Indigophoton Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    http://www.virology.ws/2018/07/11/trial-by-error-my-letter-to-the-science-and-technology-committee/
     
  2. Sasha

    Sasha Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Thank you, @dave30th, for keeping the pressure on and sending all these letters. Surely one of them will find someone actually prepared to do his/her job.
     
  3. Jonathan Edwards

    Jonathan Edwards Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    @dave30th seems to be on a roll.

    One might wonder if 'harassing' the establishment like this might lead to a dead end - a bit like trying to get Mr trump's tax account published.

    However, I am reminded that some time around 1990 a particularly persistent medical trainee harassed the establishment in this sort of way and the surprising result was a complete overhaul of medical training in the UK.
     
  4. dave30th

    dave30th Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Well if they could actually refute anything, that would help. but since they can't and they just remain silent or post opaque editor's notes that are content-less, they end up looking like losers. (I hope, anyway.) I don't think there is a shortage of people to whom I can write letters, nor a shortage of upcoming news events on which to comment in follow-up letters.
     
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  5. MeSci

    MeSci Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Who was that?
     
  6. dave30th

    dave30th Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    yes what's that about?
     
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  7. Alvin

    Alvin Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    I see where your going but if you don't try then you are even less likely to succeed

    Sometimes it comes down to luck or being in the right place at the right time or having a persuasive argument in the right place/time

    Pressure works wonders in politics, lobbyists get their way because they put pressure on governments to give industry what they want so i see this as a way to get us into more discourse and add pressure to get us recognized and funded :)
     
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  8. Esther12

    Esther12 Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    It's such a pain that the Establishment is such a temperamental creature. It can be hard to know how to get it to start behaving better.
     
  9. Alvin

    Alvin Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Actually its very simple, voters need to vote for improvement instead of lies or single issues while avoiding everything else.
     
  10. Sean

    Sean Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Advocacy for change works in no small part by persistence, by simply continuously restating the arguments and positions at every opportunity, by keeping it in the public eye and in the face of those with the power to make the changes.

    Sad, but that is how it really works. No matter how legit or necessary or urgent the change is.

    How long did it take for women to even start getting the vote, and they still don't have it everywhere.

    If only it were. :rolleyes:
     
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  11. Alvin

    Alvin Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    I agree

    It is, voters want lies and vote for them so we get them. If voters want progress then they need to vote for it and stop voting for lies.
     
    Sean likes this.
  12. Jonathan Edwards

    Jonathan Edwards Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    I was trying to make the point that historically the UK medical establishment may have proved rather more like a rubber tree plant than the pessimists that we all tend to be (except maybe David) assume.

    The medical trainee was called Ricky Goldstein. He had problems getting accredited as a consultant and complained that the system was unfair. He complained repeatedly enough for the government to have to set up a public enquiry under Sir Kenneth Calman and Calman was forced to conclude that our training system was not consistent with EU regulations and had to be completely dismantled and overhauled. At least that is how I remember it.
     
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  13. Alvin

    Alvin Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Lets hope that the biggest medical scandal of the 21st century plus lots of agitation leads to some heads rolling
     
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  14. Peter Trewhitt

    Peter Trewhitt Established Member (Voting Rights)

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    It is difficult to know in the long run what strategy will be best, however in this case there are clear problems and simple remedies that are obviously being blocked by editors' prevarication and obfuscation, so I think so far @dave30th is being self evidently rational and direct. Most, except the recipients of these emails, must see their clarity and directness a refreshing antidote to the British over politeness and fear of conflict that must be a factor in the small coterie of BPSers previous successful highjacking of the UK's ME/CFS agenda.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 12, 2018 at 7:24 PM
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  15. dave30th

    dave30th Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    I've tried to be very clear and specific and to keep repeating over and over again the very obvious problems with these studies, without making overly broad or ad hominem accusations. I think I'm making progress in denting the implacable resistance to acknowledging any problems--at BMJ if not the Lancet. Certainly the letters are meant to put the editors in the awkward position of either explaining to colleagues at similar levels why so many experts and MPs are signing protest letters or why a research study was allowed to unilaterally exempt itself from ethics approval, or not responding. That's not a great choice. It is interesting that Archives felt compelled to post a notice on the LP paper that essentially confirms the concerns by failing to refute them but otherwise provides no concrete information--except that the investigators have submitted some sort of explanation for the whole mess. Presumably the editors recognize they will have to provide more information at some point. They know they can't justify it. So it is a bit mystifying that they don't understand it would be better to get it all over with and 'fess up. Perhaps they are concerned that one retraction--or a major correction that essentially debunks the findings of, say, the LP study--won't be the last. People might start scouring all of these studies for flaws, even more than they already are.
     
  16. Barry

    Barry Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    I think they are trying to feel their way here. They know they are screwed, but can't suss (or at least agree amongst themselves) what they should best do. So in true British style when faced with such a conundrum ... they choose to do nothing.
     
  17. TiredSam

    TiredSam Moderator Staff Member

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    Drink tea and wait. Surprisingly effective.
     
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  18. Sean

    Sean Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    A fair chunk of life's problems are solved by sitting back and waiting, by knowing when to leave hands in pockets and keep mouths shut.

    But not this time. :sneaky:
     
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  19. Barry

    Barry Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Quite so. They always got away with it before the modern age of social media, but now it's not so simple.
     

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