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Covid-19 vaccines and vaccinations

Discussion in 'Epidemics (including Covid-19, not Long Covid)' started by hinterland, Dec 3, 2020.

  1. Snow Leopard

    Snow Leopard Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    This is a big beat up over nothing. They used standard vaccine trial methodology, which is significant reduction in symptomatic infection.

    Vaccine clinical trials are not capable of measuring viral transmission due to the incredible cost and likely ethical concerns too - the sample size would need to be much larger, go on for longer and likely cost 10 times as much.

    The subsequent public health data (eg Public Health England) did demonstrate significant reduction in transmission, at least until the Omicron variants came along.
     
    FMMM1, Fainbrog, RedFox and 10 others like this.
  2. shak8

    shak8 Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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  3. TigerLilea

    TigerLilea Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    I'm still trying to recover from the Pfizer booster that I had at the end of January. Researchers in Germany are studying whether the spike protein in the vaccine is causing some of us to get Long Covid.
     
    MeSci, SNT Gatchaman, Binkie4 and 2 others like this.
  4. Samuel

    Samuel Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    598
    Merged thread

    Preventing vaccine reactions


    here is a very short youtube from klimas that for health reasons i cannot watch but looks like it could be useful. i think the talk is new and not her earlier written advice.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9NoxUzCLFPA




    this thread is for discussion, science, treatment, who is at risk, differences among vaccines, experiences, effectiveness, time of day jab, hypotheses, stats, upcoming studies, etc.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 5, 2023
    Louie41 and Peter Trewhitt like this.
  5. Sean

    Sean Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Sorry. Wasn't criticising you. :hug:

    It is entirely the website's fault. It would be an effort to read for healthy people. :thumbsdown:
     
    ahimsa and shak8 like this.
  6. Mithriel

    Mithriel Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Vaccines prime the immune system so that when it comes in contact with the virus it can begin fighting it much sooner. Things like diptheria were deadly because the infection killed you before the immune system got its act together.

    That's it. if your immune system acts faster covid is less likely to reach deep into the organs so you have a milder disease. The question of transmission is whether you can pass on virus before the immune system gets rid of it.

    It is not actually terribly important because what the vaccine does do is kill off the virus quickly so you are not transmitting disease for so long. The cumulative effect of a well vaccinated population is that there is less virus circulating so your chances of catching the disease get lower and lower. So a vaccine that works automatically reduces population burden which is more important than measuring transmission.

    In the early days of the epidemic we needed to stop deaths and reduce serious disease, transmission was much less important as we desperately needed speedy research. This is not some kind of cover up or conspiracy.

    The vaccines were a triumph of science and the speed they were rolled out while still testing for safety and efficacy is a tribute to the scientists involved.

    Too many people out there seem to think that the vaccine kills the virus but it is our immune systems that do that and the vaccine makes them more efficient.

    Unfortunately we have thrown away the advantage of the vaccine by not keeping to simple, cheap effective mitigations. It is heart breaking.
     
    Helena, Rosie, JemPD and 10 others like this.
  7. ukxmrv

    ukxmrv Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    It looks similar to her advice that I saw previously and didn't do much to reduce the severe reaction that I had to the AZ vaccine (which is still ongoing).
    Surprised that Dr K doesn't know this as some of the people who did take her previous advice must have fed this back to her.
    I am grateful that she, at least tried to tackle this subject. I was just one if the unlucky ones.
     
    Louie41, Samuel, alktipping and 2 others like this.
  8. TigerLilea

    TigerLilea Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    I tried taking an anti-histamine but it knocked me out.
     
  9. Mij

    Mij Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    I'm not sure where to post this.

    Anti-SARS vaccination in people with MS: Lessons learnt a year in, including adverse events.

    It has been over a year since people with multiple sclerosis (pwMS) have been receiving vaccines against severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2). With a negligible number of cases in which vaccination led to a relapse or new onset MS, experts around the world agree that the potential consequences of COVID-19 in pwMS by far outweigh the risks of vaccination. This article reviews the currently available types of anti-SARS-CoV-2 vaccines and the immune responses they elicit in pwMS treated with different DMTs.

    Findings to date highlight the importance of vaccine timing in relation to DMT dosing to maximize protection, and of encouraging pwMS to get booster doses when offered.

    Clinicians should discuss anti-SARS-CoV-2 vaccination timing with pwMS to maximize the effectiveness of the vaccine, taking into consideration their risk of infection, the type of DMT they are taking, their current immune status, their general health and the coexistence of other diseases.

    These recommendations will need to be regularly updated as knowledge of how pwMS respond to SARS-CoV-2 vaccines (and the extent to which they protect against new virus variants) is evolving very rapidly

    https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fimmu.2022.1045101/full
     
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  10. Mij

    Mij Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Association between the side effect induced by COVID-19 vaccines and the immune regulatory gene polymorphism, 2022, Ding-Ping Chen


    People often worry about the side effects after vaccination, reducing the willingness to vaccinate. Thus, we tried to find out the risk of single nucleotide polymorphism (SNP) vaccines to improve the willingness and confidence in vaccination. Allergic and inflammatory reactions are the common vaccine side effects caused by immune system overreaction. In addition, a previous study showed significantly higher frequency of febrile reactions to measles vaccines in American Indians than in Caucasian children, indicating that the side effects varied in accordance with genetic polymorphisms in individuals. Thus, SNPs of immune regulatory genes, cytotoxic T-lymphocyte-associated protein 4 (CTLA4), CD28, tumor necrosis factor ligand superfamily member 4 (TNFSF4) and programmed cell death protein 1 (PDCD1) were included in this study to analyze their association with vaccine side effects.

    Moreover, 61 healthy participants were asked on the number of doses they received, the brand of the vaccine, and the side effects they suffered. We found that several SNPs were associated with side effects after the first or second dose of mRNA or adenoviral vector vaccines. Furthermore, these SNPs were associated with several autoimmune diseases and cancer types; thus, they played an important role in immune regulation.

    Moreover, rs3181096 and rs3181098 of CD28, rs733618 and rs3087243 of CTLA, and rs1234314 of TNFSF4 were associated with mild vaccine side effects induced by mRNA and adenoviral vector vaccines, which would play a potential role in vaccine-induced immune responses and may further lead to fatal side effects. These results could serve as a basis for investigating the mechanism of vaccine side effects. Furthermore, it was hoped that these results would address public concerns about the side effects of the COVID-19 vaccination.

    In clinical application, a rapid screening test can be performed to assess the risk of vaccine side effects before vaccination and provide immediate treatment.

    https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fimmu.2022.941497/full
     
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  11. Mij

    Mij Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Lilas, Sean, Binkie4 and 1 other person like this.
  12. perchance dreamer

    perchance dreamer Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Novavax was approved in the U.S. 10/19 as a booster. It was approved as a primary-only vaccine in July. Now it can be used even if your primary vaccine was something different.

    I think this is big news, but I've seen little coverage about it. I've been waiting on it because my doctor had recommended that I get vaccines with the older technology rather than mRNA. He thinks if you're healthy, any of the vaccines are fine, but if someone has had a history of immune-related problems, it's best to get traditional vaccines. That said, I've known other people with immune problems who have done fine with Moderna or Pfizer.

    Last year I got the J&J, but have been waiting on Novavax to get approved as a booster since it seems to help more with the newer variants.

    Have any of you gotten Novavax? It was approved in other countries before it was in the U.S.
     
    Binkie4, MeSci, RedFox and 1 other person like this.
  13. perchance dreamer

    perchance dreamer Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Actually, as I read more, it seems unclear how effective Novavax is against the newer omicron variants, so I'll have to do more research and talk to my doctor again. There's a lot of contradictory information about this.
     
    Binkie4, MeSci, Lilas and 1 other person like this.
  14. LarsSG

    LarsSG Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    I got Novavax as a fourth shot this summer, after the first three Moderna doses had unpleasant side effects that lasted at least a few days. Very few side effects for me with Novavax. But as you note, it's based on Wuhan spike, not BA.5 spike, so less protective. I was planning to get a bivalent BA.5 mRNA shot soon because of that, even with the side effects, but got Covid before I could.
     
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  15. perchance dreamer

    perchance dreamer Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    With the J&J, my main side effect was a lot of sinus and nasal congestion for several days. @LarsSG, what were the few side effects you had with Novavax?
     
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  16. LarsSG

    LarsSG Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Very little, a bit of a sore arm, maybe a few hours of feeling very slightly off.
     
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  17. TigerLilea

    TigerLilea Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    The bivalent mRNA shots aren't providing any extra protection and are no better than the older mRNA shots.

    https://vancouversun.com/news/local...7-nov-2-heres-what-you-need-to-know-this-week
     
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  18. Samuel

    Samuel Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    could the newer-variant-including bivalents work better in those who have not gotten vaccinated yet? has that been studied?

    i refer to the immune system fighting the last war phenomenon.
     
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2022
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  19. Mij

    Mij Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    I'll be receiving the Health Canada authorized adapted version Moderna Spikevax COVID-19 vaccine that targets the Omicron BA.4/BA.5 subvariants in a couple of weeks.

    I declined the flu vax b/c they only administer it at the same time for home visits. I would have preferred the jabs on separate days.
     
    RedFox, Lilas, MeSci and 3 others like this.
  20. Sly Saint

    Sly Saint Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Sean likes this.

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