Coronavirus - worldwide spread and control

[Trish]

From the moderators

This thread has been moved temporarily to the fully moderated threads subforum to give moderators a break. Please don't start up discussions of the politics and economics of the situation on other threads.
Please read the messages from moderators here.

 

[Jonathan Edwards]

Not airplanes?

Could be recirculated air on planes, yes. But in several cases people seem to have brought the virus having been travelling by air but not from a place particularly likely to be a source. The other possibility is recycled air or catering in Business Class Lounges! That would be an interesting irony.

 

[Barry]

An interesting thing is that a far higher number of high profile politicians, actors and sportspeople seem to have been affected than expected by chance. I have a strong suspicion that airports are a major venue for spread. Maybe the penny will drop.

Yes, that and maybe that they are more likely to attend large multi-national social and business gatherings also.

Maybe just being on an aircraft is also an issue, with many people sharing the same enclosed airspace. Although fresh air is constantly being drawn in, I don't know what the air change rate is. I imagine airlines need to have ramped up the cross-contamination procedures considerably, but doubt they've done enough in time.

 

[BurnA]

It will last about four years and during that time normal economic life will cease. On the other hand it ought to be possible for most people to live comfortably and survive.

Would you mind expanding your thoughts on normal economic life ceasing - in what ways?
Trying to understand the confidence that most people will live comfortably in such a scenario.

Do you think a vaccine would be developed before 4 years?

 

[Invisible Woman]

a 'cull' of the elderly and disabled isn't seen as economically important.

There's a huge issue with this them and us kind of division - it's false.

Many people rely on parents or older relatives for childcare or dropping children off & collecting them from school.

Many people are still in the workforce in their mid 60s and onwards.

Underlying conditions are often invisible. The person sitting next to you in the office might be in an at risk group, but looking at them you would never know.

Not everyone who has an illness or disability can achieve what Steven Hawkins did, but they still quietly contribute in a myriad of ways.

 

[Invisible Woman]

I am wondering if companies are taking the threats more seriously than governments.

My husband's employers have just changed the level of approval needed for non emergency time off. For now, employees who are planning on travel outside the country need to clear it ahead of travel, otherwise if they get stuck abroad they won't be laid for the time they miss.

No visitors allowed into the offices and restrictions placed on meetings etc.

 

[Sly Saint]

Someone has complained to the MHRA about Myhill's (quite frankly bizzare) coronavirus page.

she now has a video on youtube;
Dr Myhill Advises On Treating Viral Infection
only watched the first few minutes but she is talking about taking 10 grams, that's grams of vit C every hour until you get diarrhea. Could be up to 200g per day for serious infection eg pneumonia, and using a salt pipe with iodine up your nose.

 

[Amw66]

Sounds sensible

https://skwawkbox.org/2020/03/13/se...-facts-not-fears-of-the-coronavirus-outbreak/

 

[Esther12]

Vallance said: "This is quite likely, I think, to become an annual virus, an annual seasonal infection."

So how are they going to 'cocoon' vulnerable populations from that?

 

[svetoslav80]

They announced a state of emergency in Bulgaria today. So, I'm staying home in bed and not going anywhere. Oh wait ...

 

[MSEsperanza]

Consequences of the closure of daycare and schools in Berlin:
Clinic employs kindergarten teacher for children of employees

The Helios Clinic [...] is taking measures to remain able to work despite the closure of daycare and schools and has decided to appoint a kindergarten teacher to look after the children of its employees.

"Since the Berlin Senate, due to the current situation, is allowing a temporary offer of emergency care for children of our employees without permission, we will set up a corresponding care service at the Helios Clinic Emil von Behring starting Monday", said a press spokesperson upon request. The Senate's requirements regarding care, meals, play and sleeping facilities, hygiene or fire protection would "naturally be met".

After all, physicians, rescue workers and nursing staff are among the "system-critical professions", which means that care must continue to be available for children in these professions. However, this is only the case if both parents belong to a system-critical occupational group - otherwise the other parent must look after the child.

Translated with DeepL (free version)

https://www.tagesspiegel.de/wissen/...estellt-10-000-beatmungsgeraete/25560996.html

 

[Barry]

Fergus Walsh just reported that the reason there would be no point closing schools is because children do not significantly spread the virus. Is this true? If so, is there a correlation between that and the fact it is far less detrimental to children?

 

[BurnA]

Could be recirculated air on planes, yes.

Can viruses recirculate on their own in air or do they need a transport mechanism.
Or are there enough particles in the air to transport them.

 

[Jonathan Edwards]

Worse than childbirth'


Clare Gerada, a London-based family doctor and former chairwoman of the Royal College of General Practitioners, has tweeted that she is now recovering after an "unwelcome visit" from Covid-19.

Dr Gerada described the experience as the "worst case of the flu I have ever had" and it was "worse than child birth".

She added that she is still going to self-isolate for another few days.

 

[lunarainbows]

Fergus Walsh just reported that the reason there would be no point closing schools is because children do not significantly spread the virus. Is this true? If so, is there a correlation between that and the fact it is far less detrimental to children?

Yesterday the Honorary president of the BMA was on ITV news saying children are a “hub” for infection. As they go in and out of places all the time, mix with everybody and anybody, carry the infection and pass it onto vulnerable family members. Sorry the only link I can find so far are links to twitter videos,

said schools should definitely have been closed by now.

 

[Jonathan Edwards]

Vallance said: "This is quite likely, I think, to become an annual virus, an annual seasonal infection."

So how are they going to 'cocoon' vulnerable populations from that?

I wouldn't worry. Vallance is not an immunologist. I don't think he has any basis for claiming that.

 

[lunarainbows]

@Barry also, as well as the video above, this is a thread about studies showing school closures have a huge impact on reducing spread of infection (think this was posted earlier in this thread which is where I found it),

 

[Jonathan Edwards]

Can viruses recirculate on their own in air or do they need a transport mechanism.
Or are there enough particles in the air to transport them.

They normally circulate in tiny water droplets. The droplets may be too small to get caught in filters even if they are used. I think that air recirculation systems may also generate their own droplets for viruses to hop on to.

 

[lunarainbows]

I wouldn't worry. Vallance is not an immunologist. I don't think he has any basis for claiming that.

Vallance has tweeted recently about how this policy helps; because we are so far away from a vaccine.

“There is little chance of a usable vaccine being developed this year. Our approach reflects the need to do all we can to stop our NHS getting overwhelmed in the absence of a vaccine”

I didn’t quite understand though how not bringing in social distancing policies, actually helps with flattening the curve. I understand the flattening the curve in general, but I would have thought that’s what other European countries are doing; not us? Aren’t we instead just .. doing not much at all, ie not making much change to the curve?

 

[Jonathan Edwards]

Would you mind expanding your thoughts on normal economic life ceasing - in what ways?
Trying to understand the confidence that most people will live comfortably in such a scenario.

We are living out of town for now - near Felixstowe. The port is quiet. The warehouses shown on local TV are bare. The sky was totally quiet when we walked for an hour this afternoon. Not a single plane flew over and we are bang on the route east from Heathrow, Luton and Stansted, with normally at least one plane in the sky.

But everyone in town is fine, doing a bit of shopping or going for a walk.

I realise that a good number of people are going to find their normal cash inflow source cut off but they are not going to starve. The activities needed to keep people comfortable will continue. There may be terrible problems for Mr Sunak but just as in the middle of a war, something will be sorted out. Cauliflowers will be picked and eaten. Cows will be milked. Wind turbines will generate electricity.

In other words the fact that 'the economy' is going to disappear through the floor does not necessarily mean that people will come to any harm. We still have the same number of people to grow food and so on. And growing food does not require large gatherings or coughing on people anyway.

For the first five years of my life I lived in a country that had just come out of war and still had food rationing. Things were fine, if a bit limited in options for holidays. I think we are going to move into that sort of world again for a quite extended period. Carbon emissions may even go down enough to stop global warming.