1. Guest, the two part 'News in Brief' for the week beginning 5th April 2021 is here.
    Dismiss Notice
  2. Welcome! To read the Core Purpose and Values of our forum, click here.
    Dismiss Notice

CBT for CFS Therapist Manual PAEDIATRIC CFS TEAM, ROYAL UNITED HOSPITAL, BATH, UK Loades, M.E. & Starbuck, J. | 2020

Discussion in 'PsychoSocial ME/CFS News' started by Sly Saint, Sep 2, 2020.

  1. Sly Saint

    Sly Saint Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    5,914
    Likes Received:
    48,586
    Location:
    UK
  2. Amw66

    Amw66 Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    4,391
    Likes Received:
    20,698
    Can someone forward to Tymes Trust?
     
    MEMarge and Peter Trewhitt like this.
  3. Amw66

    Amw66 Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    4,391
    Likes Received:
    20,698
  4. Jonathan Edwards

    Jonathan Edwards Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    8,758
    Likes Received:
    92,862
    It is interesting that this sort of muddled drivel is still being put out. I have not read all of it yet but will probably go back and look at more. It may need to change a bit in 2021!

    There seems to be no reference to the PACE trial but I am not sure there are any references to any formal publications.
     
    Joh, MEMarge and alktipping like this.
  5. chrisb

    chrisb Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    3,307
    Likes Received:
    22,939
    For many young people with CFS/ME, recovery is not about a ‘going back’ to who they used to be, but a ‘going forwards’ to a new version of themselves whom has been through what is often reported as an enriching and developing experience, and who has progressed developmentally too

    They are clearly confident in the success of their therapy
     
    Sarah94, Joh, hinterland and 13 others like this.
  6. Jonathan Edwards

    Jonathan Edwards Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    8,758
    Likes Received:
    92,862
    We are going through a phase where we are being reminded of all sorts of people's legitimate sensitivities, and rightly so but can anyone respond to this with anything other than cringing?
     
    Anna H, hinterland, Mithriel and 9 others like this.
  7. Snowdrop

    Snowdrop Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    1,752
    Likes Received:
    12,057
    I smell a lie. Or put differently, they are bullying young people to report that. I clearly remember this lot reporting research in terms of recovery. Now this. Very twisted minds.
     
    Anna H, Sarah94, 2kidswithME and 13 others like this.
  8. John Mac

    John Mac Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    457
    Likes Received:
    5,395
    Is that the new version of themselves that stops complaining that they are ill?
     
  9. Amw66

    Amw66 Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    4,391
    Likes Received:
    20,698
    Redefinition of recovery.
    Given the failure of treatment methods this was guaranteed at some point. This places it within the psychological/ psychiatric normal definitions.

    I wonder how young people feel about this and when exactly during the course of " treatment" this version is presented.

    Our paediatric consultant said at 2nd meeting ( c 6 months after referral) that not everyone got better, but most did. ( the 80% figure that is often mentioned) .

    A clear understanding from the get go would have enabled a bit more forward planning to be done s just in case became our normal.
     
  10. InitialConditions

    InitialConditions Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    621
    Likes Received:
    4,250
    Location:
    UK
    It would be good for someone to catalogue these NHS materials. Does anyone do this or know of anyone who does?
     
    MEMarge, ladycatlover, Sean and 4 others like this.
  11. Willow

    Willow Established Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    41
    Likes Received:
    481
    Location:
    Midwest, USA
    I've read as much of this as I can stomach. For the most part I find their therapy built upon a convoluted pile of horsesh__. Their basic premise is totally wrong. My heart goes out to anyone subjected to their nonsense. They are so sure of themselves that I fear the only way to get through to them is for they themselves to come down with ME/CFS. There is a vital place for health counseling to help young people with ME/CFS, or anyone with any serious chronic illness, but I'm afraid their convoluted ideological ideas about this disease does not fit that bill. What a horrible situation.
     
    cfsandmore, Anna H, mango and 15 others like this.
  12. rvallee

    rvallee Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    5,929
    Likes Received:
    48,032
    Location:
    Canada
    Typical gaslighting junk.

    I don't see the point of republishing these documents, they are exactly identical to the hundreds of similar ones written over the last several decades. They all say the same thing, all without evidence, all aspirational toxic positivity. The substance is the exact same as the early Wessely stuff or any of its hundreds of identical derivatives.

    It clearly isn't just Hollywood that has a problem with remakes.
     
    cfsandmore, Lidia, Mithriel and 12 others like this.
  13. Snowdrop

    Snowdrop Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    1,752
    Likes Received:
    12,057
    For the past six months or so every new link I see come up I link it to the internet archive. Sometimes someone has beaten me to this other times I'm rewarded with a 'First Archive' button. I've also gone looking on occasion for old materials to archive, some of it thanks to people who link it here. Occasionally those yield a new link. I spent some time on Cochrane for a while doing this also.

    But this might not be what you mean rather something more organised?
     
    Anna H, mango, Lidia and 11 others like this.
  14. InitialConditions

    InitialConditions Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    621
    Likes Received:
    4,250
    Location:
    UK
    What do you mean by the internet archive? As in archive.org?
     
  15. Snowdrop

    Snowdrop Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    1,752
    Likes Received:
    12,057
    Yes.

    https://web.archive.org/save

    Although I like to call it the wayback machine as it's otherwise called but thought that might not be well understood.
     
  16. Amw66

    Amw66 Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    4,391
    Likes Received:
    20,698
    Perhaps of note is the role of Loades. Her recent papers abound with the same worldview.
    ECs successor ?
     
    MEMarge, ladycatlover, Andy and 4 others like this.
  17. Barry

    Barry Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    6,647
    Likes Received:
    44,543
    Took me a moment to twig that the "M.E." is her initials.
     
  18. Dolphin

    Dolphin Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    2,916
    Likes Received:
    16,201

    Attached Files:

    Anna H, mango, Joh and 13 others like this.
  19. Peter Trewhitt

    Peter Trewhitt Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    1,378
    Likes Received:
    13,813
    I have not yet fully read this Manual, but, beyond the need to comment on many specific points that I will hopefully later return to, it interesting that the overall tone and content is, as already been pointed out, an unfailingly positive presentation of hopeful assertions as evidenced scientific truths, giving no hint that there might be any debate or controversy. For example when referring to the NICE guidelines it gives no hint that the current ME/CFS guidelines are widely disputed and currently being rewritten.

    Further, as far as I have currently read, there is no encouragement for its target audience to investigate further, no indication of source materials or further reading. It strikes me that this is intended to boost willing acolytes rather than train understanding independent informed professionals.

    Obviously it was never intended to be a scientific text, but is it normal for such a handbook to be quite so unhelpful for those using it who might want to understand more. There is a role for propaganda, but how healthy is it for practitioners to be guided away from any thing beyond pure propaganda.
     
  20. Dolphin

    Dolphin Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    2,916
    Likes Received:
    16,201
    I see they talk about all sorts of relaxation therapies.
    Personally, I'd be wary of doing anything close to hypnosis with therapists you want to remain sceptical of as both during hypnosis and also even after it, one can be more suggestible and less critical/sceptical. This isn't just an issue with mainstream therapies but also complementary and alternative therapies. I reckon that lots of things that involve your closing your eyes may involve a hypnotic-type state.

    There are lots of relaxation recordings out there; you don't need to use one from your CBT therapist.
     

Share This Page