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BC Women's Hospital with info-film on ME/CFS

Discussion in 'General ME/CFS News' started by Kalliope, Apr 7, 2018.

  1. Kalliope

    Kalliope Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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  2. Jonathan Edwards

    Jonathan Edwards Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    I wonder what sort of institution has produced this. I is very polished but completely unbalanced in its content. There may be a problem with mitochondria but it is far from clear.
     
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  3. Kalliope

    Kalliope Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Thanks for your input. Always appreciated.

    I don't know the institution behind this.
     
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  4. brf

    brf Established Member (Voting Rights)

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    This is the same institution in Vancouver that pushes the CSS model of disease talked about in this thread.
    https://www.s4me.info/threads/hypothetical-questions-what-if-psychobabblers.2441/

    It's the same people who will be presenting their model at the Montreal conference next month.

    (4:03): "Individuals with ME/CFS have a lower VO2 max. They switch from using oxygen to not using it at a lower heart rate because they are deconditioned from not being able to exercise."

    It's all about deconditioning for them.

    Weren't there a couple of papers lately talking about deconditioning not likely to play a part in ME? (I can't remember where I read them.)
     
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2018
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  5. TigerLilea

    TigerLilea Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    British Columbia Women's Hospital - one of the big government run hospitals in Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada.
     
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  6. Allele

    Allele Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    To be fair, they did say "But there's more to it than simple deconditioning."
     
  7. brf

    brf Established Member (Voting Rights)

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    Yes, it does goes on to say:

    (4:20 approx)
    "But there's more to it than simple deconditioning and achieving VO2 max at a lower heart rate."

    They then go on to describe what happens during a 'crash' when ME patients VO2 Max rate drops even lower. The "more to it" seems to be in relation to PEM where they go on to say at around the 5 minute mark,

    "For people with ME/CFS, you can see that their ability to use oxygen is diminished at baseline due to deconditioning."

    So they seem to be saying that because those with ME have a lower VO2 Max at baseline, further activity pushes them into PEM and it would follow they would have a lower VO2 Max during PEM.



    One major issue here is that deconditioning and deconditioning due to lack of exercise are assumptions on their part. This has not been proven and, in fact, there are studies indicating otherwise.



    As per:

    Elevated brain natriuretic peptide levels in chronic fatigue syndrome associate with cardiac dysfunction: a case control study
    November 2017

    "This study confirms an association between reduced cardiac volumes and BNP in CFS. Lack of relationship between length of disease suggests that findings are not secondary to deconditioning."

    http://openheart.bmj.com/content/openhrt/4/2/e000697.full.pdf



    and:

    Reduced cardiac volumes in chronic fatigue syndrome associate with plasma volume but not length of disease: a cohort study
    June 2016

    Conclusions

    "This study confirms an association between reduced cardiac volumes and blood volume in CFS. Lack of relationship between length of disease, cardiac and plasma volumes suggests findings are not secondary to deconditioning."

    http://openheart.bmj.com/content/3/1/e000381.info



    and I believe Lenny Jason's latest paper says something to this effect as well - the presumption that deconditioning has anything to do with ME.

    A reexamination of the cognitive behavioral model of chronic fatigue syndrome: Investigating the Cogency of the Model's Behavioral Pathway

    "Findings suggest that individuals’ activity level is unrelated to perceptions about illness etiology; rather, activity level is an indicator of general illness severity, along with impairment and fatigue.

    These findings are inconsistent with cognitive behavioral theories of CFS that presume that individuals’ symptoms stem from deconditioning and maladaptive illness beliefs. As these theories lack empirical support, and patients continue to express concerns about the efficacy of cognitive behavioral and graded exercise treatments, caution should be exercised in prescribing these treatments to patients.

    Furthermore, future research efforts may better serve individuals with ME and CFS by working toward developing alternative treatments."


    This appears to be original work:
    http://via.library.depaul.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1200&context=csh_etd



    and this seems to be the dePaul Group publication from January 2018:

    A reexamination of the cognitive behavioral model of chronic fatigue syndrome

    "Findings suggest that individuals’ activity level is unrelated to perceptions about illness etiology. These results are inconsistent with cognitive behavioral theories of CFS that presume that individuals’ symptoms stem from deconditioning and maladaptive illness beliefs. The current study indicates that caution should be exercised when prescribing treatments, such as CBT or GET, that presume a relation among illness beliefs, activity, and impairment, particularly when working with individuals who fulfill more stringent case definitions for ME and CFS."

    https://lookaside.fbsbx.com/file/Sunnquist, & Jason (in press). A reexamination of the cognitive behavioral model of chronic fatigue syndrome.pdf?token=AWwYya3hIKGh7w8GpubD147ATGf6ySbIihxBsM-ce8psb4q7O_OVwCJz3UtzGm81gNGtjUE2vVWC0i4KHGN2-7CaP7O_OaJCDkjOAK6Q5vwMAWTVx97UPMsC3LZyGQCjGFWAE9aKEbK2j2Fy98994YYD1EwI7BxhcYi7wdyKXmOVni9FxLeaawoxErEAuvmobmA
     
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2018

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