Australia: Say NO to the cashless debit card!

Simone said:
Other expenses has $200 every 28 days, so for people who are home bound or bedbound and have asked someone to buy things for them and want to reimburse them, the max they can transfer to them is $200 in a month
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I will have to give my card to a third party, then the PIN, totally violating security. There is currently no way around this. Over time, and multiple support workers, many people will wind up with my PIN, so I will have to keep changing it ... and I already cannot remember passwords and PINs.
 
alex3619 said:
I will have to give my card to a third party, then the PIN, totally violating security. There is currently no way around this. Over time, and multiple support workers, many people will wind up with my PIN, so I will have to keep changing it ... and I already cannot remember passwords and PINs.
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The issue about carers having to have the card to buy stuff for people is a huge one. They’ve not considered housebound or bedbound people at all.
 
alex3619 said:
This is prohibited by my landlord's agents. They do not allow anyone to know their bank details. I strongly suspect that they have been targeted by criminals in the past. Bank systems are frequently hacked, and accounts drained. There are options that might allow me to pay my rent under the new system, but only if they are implemented right. I am sufficiently cynical about their capacity to do so, but I am willing to be pleasantly surprised.
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That’s terrible! How does the agent make people pay their rent?
 
large donner said:
The purpose of this is to dispose of cash altogether then every single transaction anyone makes can be seen, scrutinised and judged in real time. Then that data will also be shared with insurance companies, health care suppliers and change agents etc.

It will also give them algorithms of "unnecessary spending" and will assist them in keeping the minimum wage as low as suits them and any agency who has an interest in asset stripping.

This may be a roll out on people on benefits now but cash is going to disappear fast if the establishment have their way.
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Simone said:
But, when you’ve demonised poor people for decades, you can get away with it because the public’s response isn’t outrage, it’s “If you don’t like it, get a job”.
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Simone said:
Funny you should mention the plan to dispose of cash, they’re tackling that from another angle too.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-10...y-post-mp-concerns-on-freedom-breach/11640124
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People on social security are just the test group for introducing a fully cashless society, which is one of the critical infrastructure elements of an authoritarian state. (The others being knowing your location at all times, who you are communicating with, and your medical records.)

The rest of Oz society just have not twigged yet what a fully cashless society really means. So they are happy to let it be done to us undeserving feckless bludgers on welfare, in the delusion that they are safe from it being done to them.

When they realise what they have done to themselves, they better not look to me for sympathy, because all I will have is bitter mocking laughter at their idiocy.
 
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rvallee said:
This is shockingly dumb. Like most housebound people, I make most of my purchases online. How are housebound people supposed to buy stuff if online purchases are limited? This maximally hurts the most vulnerable, it's almost designed as a program to cause despair among the most vulnerable.
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To be fair, not all online stores are banned, but there are restrictions, and some huge sites are banned (eg: eBay and PayPal), but others (like iHerb) are not.

There are so many stories about people having issues with the card, but the government is just glossing over them all. They‘re determined to make this happen.
 
Simone said:
some huge sites are banned (eg: eBay and PayPal),
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Which just happen to be my two main online purchase sites.

The ability to buy online is one of my main financial and health management tools. It saves both money and time/energy, and on more than a few occasions has made something possible that could not be done any other way (e.g. sourcing out of production spare parts to fix something that otherwise has plenty of life left in it, and thus saving considerable money).

This is going to be a disaster, and it is entirely intentional on the part of the government. They are doing everything they can to make social security as traumatic and dysfunctional as possible, to drive people off it, and as a warning to those not on it about what will happen to them if they even try to apply for it.

It is conspicuous cruelty.

Also, what happens to joint accounts, where one person is not on benefits? How does that work?

And what about existing cash in accounts? Does that get put onto the card? I am planning to withdraw all my modest funds just before it is introduced. Might buy (ha ha) enough breathing space until the next election, and potentially a new government (which is no guarantee anything will change, of course, but at least it is a possibility).
 
Sean said:
People on social security are just the test group for introducing a fully cashless society, which is one of the critical infrastructure elements of an authoritarian state. (The others being knowing your location at all times, who you are communicating with, and your medical records.)

The rest of Oz zsociety just have not twigged yet what a fully cashless society really means. So they are happy to let it be done to us undeserving feckless bludgers on welfare, in the delusion that they are safe from it being done to them.

When they realise what they have done to themselves, they better not look to me for sympathy, because all I will have is bitter mocking laughter at their idiocy.
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The complacency of so many around so many topics: increased surveillance, meta-data etc. It’s mind-numbing.
 
Sean said:
It is conspicuous cruelty.

Also, what happens to joint accounts, where one person is not on benefits? How does that work?

And what about existing cash in accounts? Does that get put onto the card? I am planning to withdraw all my modest funds just before it is introduced. Might buy (ha ha) enough breathing space until the next election, and potentially a new government (which is no guarantee anything will change, of course, but at least it is a possibility).
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This card is separate to existing accounts, so won’t affect joint accounts and won’t affect cash in your accounts, because Indue and the card can’t access your bank account. It’s like getting a brand new debit card account in your name only and at a separate bank (which isn’t a bank and doesn’t offer the fraud protections of a bank), but with loads of restrictions of where you can use the money that’s put into the account.

It also means that any direct debits you’ve got set up would need to be changed so that they come out of the new card account, not your current bank account or credit card (unless you can cover them under the 20%). This alone is a huge deal for MEeps.
 
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Cashless Debit Card exit
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To exit the Cashless Debit Card program, participants need to demonstrate reasonable and responsible management of their affairs generally, including financial affairs. Each application will be considered on a case-by-case basis and take into account legislated criteria such as the interest of children, if the participant has been convicted of an offence or served a sentence of imprisonment at any time in the last 12 months, risk of homelessness, and health and safety of the participant and community.

What’s new?
On 12 August 2019, the Social Security (Administration) Amendment (Cashless Welfare) Act 2019 legislation was passed that broadened the assessment criteria to also consider the participant’s personal circumstances, in addition to their financial management.

This means that new processes had to be put in place to enable an effective, consistent and fair process for consideration of a participant’s application to exit the Cashless Debit Card program.

Next steps
From Thursday 12 September 2019, an application form is now available to apply to exit the Cashless Debit Card program. In addition to an application form being submitted, an assessment will be undertaken which will include gathering information relevant to your application. You will also be contacted to have a phone interview.
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https://www.dss.gov.au/families-and...e-conditionality/cashless-debit-card-overview

Also:

For the Bundaberg and Hervey Bay region, the ongoing per head cost of the Cashless Debit Card is approximately $820 per annum, based on the card provider maximum value.
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https://www.dss.gov.au/sites/defaul...tsheet-common-misconceptions-extra-text_0.pdf

Which is still outrageously expensive!
 
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To exit the Cashless Debit Card program, participants need to demonstrate reasonable and responsible management of their affairs generally, including financial affairs.
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Believe it when I see that process actually working fairly and promptly. Not holding my breath. It would be completely contrary to everything this government has done to the social security system and every attitude they hold to its users.

https://www.sbs.com.au/nitv/article...s-can-soon-apply-opt-out-cashless-card-trials

https://www.theguardian.com/austral...e-card-trial-is-almost-impossible-critics-say
 
Sean said:
Believe it when I see that process actually working fairly and promptly. Not holding my breath. It would be completely contrary to everything this government has done to the social security system and every attitude they hold to its users.

https://www.sbs.com.au/nitv/article...s-can-soon-apply-opt-out-cashless-card-trials

https://www.theguardian.com/austral...e-card-trial-is-almost-impossible-critics-say
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It’s so disgusting.

People who are poor struggle to pay bills because they, by definition, don’t have enough money. That lack of money is then used as evidence that they’re incapable of managing their finances (rather than reflecting the reality that social security payments haven’t kept up with the cost of living), and then used to refuse them exiting the card.

My understanding is that there’s no evidence that anyone who has applied to exit the program has been allowed to do so.
 
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