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Will an app a day, keep the doctor away? A critical look at BPS based phone apps.

Discussion in 'Psychosomatic news - ME/CFS and Long Covid' started by fossil, Aug 6, 2019.

  1. feeb

    feeb Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Good LORD. And people say crime doesn't pay!
     
    Sarah94, chrisb, Snowdrop and 8 others like this.
  2. lunarainbows

    lunarainbows Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    2,820
    And some more. The app is also big on forgiveness and how that helps heal conditions. They quote some research in their app.

    Also here’s an email about how it helps M.E
     

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  3. lunarainbows

    lunarainbows Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Their 5 day healing challenge from Instagram which I got an email to follow. This is day 1
     

    Attached Files:

    fossil, Liessa, rainy and 2 others like this.
  4. lunarainbows

    lunarainbows Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    The worry with the rise of this psychosocial stuff is that someone I know will see this and it will feed into their already warped perceptions about what my illness is. It’s horrible. It makes life even harder for us.
     
  5. Snow Leopard

    Snow Leopard Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    WTF?
     
    Sarah94, Liessa, ladycatlover and 3 others like this.
  6. fossil

    fossil Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    That's a lot of potential income then.

    I can't see anything on the apple apps preview page that advises people to see a doctor to make sure their chronic pain isn't a serious condition before using the Curable app.

    So it seems that doctors are now offering treatment to patients that they haven't seen. How is that ethical - or legal?
     
  7. fossil

    fossil Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Curable is mentioned in this study;

    Evaluation of Self-Management Support Functions in Apps for People With Persistent Pain: Systematic Review

    Hemakumar Devan et al Feb 2019

    https://mhealth.jmir.org/2019/2/e13080/

    Comment from conclusion;

     
    ladycatlover likes this.
  8. fossil

    fossil Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    The lead author of the above study is developing an app specifically for New Zealanders;

    https://www.noted.co.nz/health/health-health/chronic-pain-how-online-tools-can-help-manage
     
    ladycatlover and Hutan like this.
  9. fossil

    fossil Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    New Zealand again. (@Hutan, above post as well.)

    Despite the lack of evidence that it works...

    https://www.healthnavigator.org.nz/apps/c/curable-app/

    While it does mention some cons, there is this review by a doctor;

    https://www.healthnavigator.org.nz/apps/c/curable-app/?tab=22799
     
    ladycatlover and Hutan like this.
  10. Trish

    Trish Moderator Staff Member

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    That is a very sweeping statement. It may be true for some pain conditions, but it's certainly not my experience with ME. The more I push myself to my energy limits, the worse my pain.
     
  11. large donner

    large donner Guest

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    1,214
    This is a complete garbage statement.

    Its not the pain, its the condition underlying the pain which dictates what someones ceiling level of exertion is. That underlying condition dictates recovery times of tissue and therefore if your recovery time is longer than a healthy person by definition you will be "resting" more.

    I can just see the think bubble coming out of this guys head....

    People who can exert themselves to the maximum level don't have pain therefore people who have pain should exert themselves to the maximum.....
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2019
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  12. Trish

    Trish Moderator Staff Member

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    Looks like it's a very early stage prototype. From what I saw it seems the idea is people input their diagnoses, symptoms, treatments and how well they work. Then the technology works out which other user have the closest match for symptoms and diagnoses, and tells you what treatments they have found effective and ineffective.

    I can only imagine this working if there are hundreds of thousands of participants. Even then, the detail needed for each would be huge.

    A little oddity - the only treatment mentioned in the article is 'cycling'.

    Sounds like a recipe for spreading quackery to me.
     
    chrisb, Snow Leopard, JemPD and 3 others like this.
  13. rvallee

    rvallee Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    The real challenge with projects like this is quality of content. It takes a huge effort to ensure that, with associated costs that are pure loss and those don't scale well, not much economies of scale. To work properly it would need serious public money and backing from institutions, as they would otherwise not trust the data.

    And there are plenty of those already, fragmenting an existing pool of competitors facing the same challenge. PatientsLikeMe has been operating for 15 years. It's neat, but without involvement from medical or public health institutions it amounts to nothing. Bit like Wikipedia. It's useful but don't cite it in serious work.

    However it would work better as a disease-specific app, rather than a generic one. There's just too much data to work with when you try to account for every medical concept and, oddly enough, huge variations in what basic terms even mean, making those that are common hard to compare. But that only solves one part, I'm not sure who the target population for the aggregate data would be.
     
  14. fossil

    fossil Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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  15. Snow Leopard

    Snow Leopard Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    fossil likes this.

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