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Webinar: Implications of ME/CFS Case Definitions for Long-COVID, Dr. Leonard Jason

Discussion in 'General ME/CFS news' started by ahimsa, Mar 4, 2022.

  1. ahimsa

    ahimsa Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Oregon, USA
    Webinar: “Implications Of ME/CFS Case Definitions For Long Covid”

    Guest speaker: Dr. Leonard Jason

    Wednesday, March 16, 2022, 4 p.m. EDT (1 p.m. PDT, 8 p.m. GMT)

    Full announcement - https://usawg.wordpress.com/2022/02/26/special-event/

    Click here to register
    Ariel, Kalliope, alktipping and 6 others like this.
  2. Andy

    Andy Committee Member

    Hampshire, UK
    Samuel, Ariel, Art Vandelay and 5 others like this.
  3. Shadrach Loom

    Shadrach Loom Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    London, UK
    Is it normal to state that ME/CFS is a post-viral condition with such certainty? If so, is it justified?

    I became ill after (I think) overdoing the cardio rehab exercise after a heart attack. Someone on a different forum developed ME after a bout of malaria, which is bacterial rather than viral.

    Apologies, I’m sure this discussion will have been done to death here elsewhere, and so this may not be the right thread.
  4. rvallee

    rvallee Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Sadly, any accurate language will probably have to wait until we have a full answer, an effort that is hindered by inaccurate language. Yay, ain't self-fulfilling failures fun?!

    Ugh. Damn Catch22-Murphy disease. Now that's accurate language: no matter what you do, you are screwed, and everything went wrong.
  5. Andy

    Andy Committee Member

    Hampshire, UK
    If you are referring to my concerns about Jason's way of defining PEM then I suggest you look at the wording being used. I don't accept that we can't do better than what he is currently using and I don't accept we should wait until we have "a full answer" before highlighting how inaccurate his definition is
    alktipping and Peter Trewhitt like this.
  6. Peter Trewhitt

    Peter Trewhitt Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    I have been pondering how to distinguish between increased fatiguability and PEM.

    For me the key is that increased fatiguability is a normal but exaggerated response to an activity, which largely fits in with the descriptions cited by Jason in his definition of PEM, this is something that people with ME experience, but also people with many other conditions also experience. This is confounded in ME by orthostatic intolerance and sensory hypersensitivities that may exaggerate or even moderate the effects of increased fatiguability.

    In contrast PEM is an abnormal response to activity, and pinpointing the abnormalities involved is key to developing operational definitions. The issues that are abnormal include:
    • Timing, may be delayed and not necessarily reversed by rest
    • Paradoxically may continue to worsen for days or even weeks after the exertion is finished
    • May impact on all ME symptoms, including worsening symptoms unconnected to the trigger activity
    • May include a general malaise, such as swollen glands or sore throat, headache and nausea
    • May involve increase sensory hypersensitivities or orthostatic intolerance
    • May increase fatiguability on subsequent days
    • ?
    • ?
    I agree with @Andy that it should be feasible, with some work, to come up with an operation description or check list that can distinguish increased fatiguability from PEM, whilst we wait for relevant biomarkers.
    Medfeb, Mithriel, Lilas and 2 others like this.
  7. cfsandmore

    cfsandmore Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Don't forget WorkWell has an explanation of PEM.

    Attached Files:

    oldtimer, Mithriel, Amw66 and 5 others like this.
  8. Mithriel

    Mithriel Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Workwell things will be refined as we have more knowledge but they are the best attempt we have so far. At the very least they offer suggestions on things that can help and give us some tools for helping ourselves.
  9. Dolphin

    Dolphin Senior Member (Voting Rights)


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