1. Guest, the 'News in Brief' for the week beginning 28th November 2022 is here.
    Dismiss Notice
  2. Welcome! To read the Core Purpose and Values of our forum, click here.
    Dismiss Notice

Vincent Deary, "CFS and the facts of life - an article for clinicians"

Discussion in 'Psychosomatic news - ME/CFS and Long Covid' started by Andy, Jan 19, 2018.

  1. Andy

    Andy Committee Member

    Messages:
    18,104
    Location:
    Hampshire, UK
    "The problem may well be that some of our [CBT] treatments are too evidence based." :rofl: Of course, that's obviously it.

    In part, this article seems to be some sob story about how CBT practitioners are misunderstood and maligned by ungrateful patients.

    "It would seem that for some sufferers, the key ingredient of best practice CBT - collaboration - is missing." And guess whose fault that is - yep, it's us patients failing to collaborate with the CBT voodoo doctors that is the reason that it's got such a poor reputation. :banghead:
    https://www.kcl.ac.uk/ioppn/depts/pm/research/cfs/health/index.aspx
     
    Starlight, MEMarge, fossil and 21 others like this.
  2. Trish

    Trish Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    43,399
    Location:
    UK
    You beat me to it @Andy. I was just about to post this. It's dire. Can you add not a recommendation to the title, so readers don't explode!

    I got as far as this paragraph...

    How dare he?
     
    MEMarge, zzz, Jan and 16 others like this.
  3. Trish

    Trish Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    43,399
    Location:
    UK
    For readers with a strong stomach, there's also Trudie Chalder's pearls of wisdom.
    https://www.kcl.ac.uk/ioppn/about/difference/22-CBT-for-chronic-fatigue-syndrome.aspx
    It includes the usual lies about our beliefs and lack of activity perpetuating our illness, and finishes with this boast:
     
    Starlight, JemPD, Woolie and 11 others like this.
  4. Wonko

    Wonko Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    6,333
    Location:
    UK
    Their "evidence based" approach appears to have completely overlooked that the actual evidence (not in quotes) in the real world (i.e. not in poorly constructed, heavily biased and quite frankly, IMO, fraudulent studies) strongly suggests that they are wrong, and that demanding, by means of coercive CBT, that ME patients exercise, in a manner dictated by GET, when one of the core symptoms of ME is exertion intolerance, is totally batshit crazy.
     
    Starlight, MEMarge, zzz and 16 others like this.
  5. chrisb

    chrisb Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    4,602
    Many of the problems of CFS could be avoided by the provision of secure asylums.

    Not for the patients.
     
    Starlight, JemPD, zzz and 14 others like this.
  6. arewenearlythereyet

    arewenearlythereyet Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    2,092
  7. Cheshire

    Cheshire Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    4,674
    Snowdrop, MEMarge, Jan and 11 others like this.
  8. Valentijn

    Valentijn Guest

    Messages:
    2,275
    Location:
    Netherlands
    Proposed subtitle: How to Paternalistically Manipulate Your Patients for Their Own Good
    I'm appalled that a university is publishing this abusive, denialist, & unscientific bullshit on their website.
     
    Starlight, MEMarge, zzz and 22 others like this.
  9. Invisible Woman

    Invisible Woman Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    10,284
    Can I respectfully suggest a title amendment @Valentijn ?

    Proposed subtitle: How to Paternalistically Manipulate Your Patients for Their Your Own Good
     
    Starlight, MEMarge, fossil and 18 others like this.
  10. Skycloud

    Skycloud Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    2,183
    Location:
    UK
    My mother's going to be relieved when I tell her it's not all her fault it's my husband's.

    edit - typo
     
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2018
    MEMarge, Mij, TigerLilea and 8 others like this.
  11. Jonathan Edwards

    Jonathan Edwards Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    11,665
    Location:
    London, UK
    When was this written? Can anyone be so dumb as to write this in 2017-18?

    If I twittered:

    Dear Dr Deary,
    You really do seemed to have missed the point. The 'evidence base' for CBT is valueless, as is now well documented. It is not the lack of empathy the patients are concerned about, it is the complete lack of understanding of either human nature or scientific method that worries them. The homeopaths at least do not make people feel small.

    Best wishes
    Jo Edwards
    UCL
     
    Starlight, MEMarge, Medfeb and 26 others like this.
  12. strategist

    strategist Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    4,545
    I hope that one of these days, one of them is going to be confronted by a knowledgable speaker about their terrible methodology in front of a running camera, in a setting where critical thought and dissent is permitted.
     
    Starlight, MEMarge, fossil and 19 others like this.
  13. Andy

    Andy Committee Member

    Messages:
    18,104
    Location:
    Hampshire, UK
    Harassment you mean?? ;)
     
    Starlight, MEMarge, fossil and 15 others like this.
  14. Valentijn

    Valentijn Guest

    Messages:
    2,275
    Location:
    Netherlands
    I think that happened with David Tuller asking a question of Esther Crawley, so we already know the outcome: security personnel are summoned to remove the knowledgeable speaker :p
     
    Starlight, MEMarge, fossil and 17 others like this.
  15. Esther12

    Esther12 Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    4,342
    It's old-ish. Pretty sure it's from before 2011, but I don't know when it first appeared.
     
    MEMarge, ladycatlover, Joh and 3 others like this.
  16. Trish

    Trish Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    43,399
    Location:
    UK
    It may be old, but the point is, Kings College still have it on their website as advice to therapists. I find it patronising, unscientific and shows no understanding of what ME/CFS is. He seems to be talking about people with personal problems and stress, not sick people.
     
    Starlight, MEMarge, Jan and 11 others like this.
  17. Invisible Woman

    Invisible Woman Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    10,284
    I think it's pretty old too. However, the fact that it's still up there indicates that they believe the information for is still current.

    That or they are not keeping their web site updated - which seems unlikely.

    Eta - crossed post with @Trish . She types quick!
     
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2018
    Starlight, MEMarge, Woolie and 5 others like this.
  18. Inara

    Inara Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    2,734
    How come they never come along anyone with ME that does some low-level exercise (which obviously doesn't help)? One reason might be they don't exercise themselves or ignore all those who exercise? Is it maybe them with the exercise phobia?

    Really... :rolleyes:
     
    Woolie, Allele, chrisb and 2 others like this.
  19. Esther12

    Esther12 Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    4,342
    I think that they recently moved it to a new address, so that's another indication that they still stand by it.
     
  20. Barry

    Barry Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    8,278
    MEMarge, Invisible Woman and Inara like this.

Share This Page