Discussion in 'Psychosomatic theories and treatments discussions' started by Sly Saint, Mar 24, 2020.
How did the human race make it so far without CBT?
2019-2020 report on IAPT services
I can't figure out where the relevant data is out of this lot
maybe someone could take a look?
This has been reported for several years, in identical terms. Nothing was done, so naturally nothing changed.
NHS mental health therapists pressurised to exaggerate success rates, expert claims
Elizabeth Cotton, of Cardiff Metropolitan University, an expert in mental health at work, said that more than four in 10 – 41 per cent – of therapists working for the NHS’s talking treatments programme had been asked to manipulate data about patients’ progress.
The action is designed to improve the scheme’s apparent achievement rates, although NHS chiefs insist patients’ views are recorded when therapists are not present.
One therapist had reportedly been advised by their manager that “I could complete forms on behalf of clients to get the best results”.
Another said: “Actual human experience was secondary to creating data which would shore up the evidence base for the model to justify the economic argument and guarantee further investment.
“The whole system represents a big self-reinforcing loop relating to success in terms that had been self-defined by the system.”
Anybody here surprised?
That's a pretty important find @rvallee- the therapists are exaggerating the benefits of talking therapy, and even with that, the performance data of IAPT still looks rubbish.
Elizabeth Cotton looks like she might have some useful things to say:
Edit - oh, she does have interesting things to say, and features in the first post of this very thread:
UK: Improving Access to Psychological Therapies (IAPT) articles, blogs and discussion
No one who could do something about it is listening.
This thread and the links have information that I think is really relevant to the forthcoming NICE roundtable about the ME/CFS Guideline. Good therapists know that a lot of what they are required to do isn't helping anyone. If counselling services are stretched, target them to people who want them and might benefit from them, and stop pretending that they are going to fix ME/CFS or MUS.
"NHS chiefs insist patients’ views are recorded when therapists are not present."
What's that got to do with the price of fish?
I rarely saw my boss face to face. He still existed, expected certain standards from me and was a part of my appraisal process so even if he was in a different county he still had significant influence on me.
There are myriad ways in which a therapist can have influence on a patient and that doesn't stop the minute they are no longer in the room. If that were the case then therapists would be pointless because the effect they would have would instantly disappear the minute the patient left the session.
So either the therapists have an effect on the patient and influence them or they don't. If they don't there's no point to the therapy and the whole thing is a waste of money anyway.
Or am I missing something?
It's a way of saying that when the relatively small number of patients who do fill in the questionnaires, they are not influenced by someone, while they fill it anyway, nevermind that most of those "therapies" are about downplaying symptoms/issues, so the influence is basically everywhere but the moment they fill in the questionnaires.
It's a deflection from the issue that therapists sometimes fill in missing questionnaires, which is far worse, so they put the focus back on a misrepresentation of another issue, technically incorrect anyway, as the bias is baked into the whole process from the start. Basically a politician/shady prosecutor's answer of the type "your honor, the witness is not currently being intimidated", which may be true for the duration it takes to say it, technically speaking. As long as there is no duty of candor, or some inconvenient stuff like that anyway.
It's that it's so blatant that really annoys me.
Bad enough when people are treated like idiots but to so blatantly treat them. like fools is just rude.
I really wish it were unbelievable that they get away with it but ........ sadlyit isn't.
The Improving Access to Psychological Therapies Manual (updated Aug 2021)
The Spinning of CBT
Michael J Scott, Joan S Crawford and Keith Geraghty
No Evidence That The Improving Access to Psychological Therapies (IAPT) Service Does Any Better Than Contact With The Citizen’s Advice Bureaux (CABx)
"italk is the Improving Access to Psychological Therapies (IAPT) service for most of hampshire", https://www.italk.org.uk/home/italk-service/
From the "Patient area", https://www.italk.org.uk/patient-area/, their offerings include;
"Building Resilience with Long-Term Conditions - Our 6 week course for people living with a long-term physical health condition such as diabetes, COPD, heart disease or chronic pain.", https://www.italk.org.uk/patient-area/building-resilience/
"Coping with Long Covid - Our 1.5hr session for people who are experiencing long-term physical symptoms after having the COVID-19 virus.", https://www.italk.org.uk/patient-area/coping-with-long-covid/
Even worse is that none of those numbers mean anything. They're just arbitrary values from biased questionnaires. Hitler moving around destroyed divisions on his map in the bunker was just as insane than this. None of this is even real, the numbers don't relate to anything in real life.
It isn't even a case of reducing lives to numbers, the numbers are completely fake and mean nothing. This is so much worse. Argh.
The Health and Social Care Committee’s Expert Panel: Evaluation of the Government’s progress against its policy commitments in the area of mental health services in England
This is a House of Commons Committee Expert Panel report, evaluating Government commitments in the area of mental health services. The Government has two months to respond.
Second Special Report of Session 2021–22
"The FYFVMH outlined that the expansion of IAPT services should have specific focus on including services for those with long term physical health conditions (LTCs) or medically unexplained symptoms (MUS)."
"The deadline for services to commission IAPT-LTC services, including the co-location of therapists in primary care was the end of 2018/2019. In their submission to our evaluation the Government said this target had not yet been met, for example, only 77% of CCGs having at least one integrated pathway by March 2020.213"
In treating long term conditions through IAPT, savings could be made across the NHS and reduce the burden on these services, but this has not yet been achieved.
I'm shocked, I tell you, shocked.
That has nothing to do with psychology. Specialist nurses or even training patients to sit and chat with the newly diagnosed would do just as well. It says nothing about the IAPT service though I can see it would be more pleasant than actually working with mental health problems.
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