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Trial By Error: Kaiser Permanente Changes Course

Discussion in 'General ME/CFS news' started by CFS_for_19_years, Mar 12, 2019.

  1. CFS_for_19_years

    CFS_for_19_years Established Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    73
    Location:
    USA
    http://www.virology.ws/2019/03/11/trial-by-error-kaiser-permanente-changes-course/

    https://twitter.com/user/status/1105255989815603200
     
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2019
    Ash, alktipping, rainy and 56 others like this.
  2. CFS_for_19_years

    CFS_for_19_years Established Member (Voting Rights)

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    73
    Location:
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    @Webdog Hooray for you and all your effort!
     
    ahimsa, Keebird, shak8 and 53 others like this.
  3. Alvin

    Alvin Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    3,309
    Came here to say this
    All hail @Webdog
     
    ahimsa, Keebird, Atle and 32 others like this.
  4. Webdog

    Webdog Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    2,265
    Location:
    Holodeck #2
    ME/CFS patients with Kaiser Permanente deserve much better than they have been offered in the past. They need real hope that their care will improve, and better support from educated doctors.

    Roughly 100 million in the US belong to managed healthcare, and ME/CFS care is almost universally abysmal. Hopefully other HMOs are watching Kaiser Permanente change direction on ME/CFS.
     
    alktipping, zzz, ahimsa and 58 others like this.
  5. Alvin

    Alvin Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    3,309
    Agreed.
    Though i think we need to train an army to do what you did here and "educate" every other health care company. From reading your various threads it was a lot of work on your part and a great deal of persistence
     
    alktipping, WillowJ, Keebird and 19 others like this.
  6. duncan

    duncan Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    1,572
    Well done @Webdog Any chance you can bring up the subject of skyping death prognoses? Can't help but feel for that poor family in CA. (Just kidding, of course. Still, a jaw-dropping incident)
     
    Keebird, Barry, Ron and 3 others like this.
  7. JaimeS

    JaimeS Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    1,248
    Location:
    Stanford, CA
    Couldn't have come at a better time!
     
    Keebird, Barry, inox and 10 others like this.
  8. Forbin

    Forbin Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    1,581
    Location:
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    Wow! All hail @Webdog indeed!

    There's just paragraph after paragraph of amazing statements from Dr. Olson in that article, such as...
     
    alktipping, ahimsa, Keebird and 26 others like this.
  9. Medfeb

    Medfeb Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    558
    Fantastic, @Webdog. I know how much this took. Thank you for being so persistent
     
    alktipping, ahimsa, WillowJ and 25 others like this.
  10. NelliePledge

    NelliePledge Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    13,145
    Location:
    UK West Midlands
    :thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:
     
    ahimsa, Keebird, Barry and 17 others like this.
  11. Sean

    Sean Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    7,046
    Location:
    Australia
    Webdog for Prez!

    Oh say can you see
    by the dawn's early light,
    our furry little friend
    with the great big sharp bite!



    :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:

    :hug:

    ––––––––

    "How did we remain ignorant for so long?"

    Whatever the final explanation for that is, it will gave to include the word 'wilful' in it. :grumpy:
     
    alktipping, ahimsa, WillowJ and 22 others like this.
  12. Roy S

    Roy S Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    459
    Location:
    Illinois, USA
  13. Roy S

    Roy S Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    459
    Location:
    Illinois, USA
  14. alex3619

    alex3619 Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    2,129
    That KP basically did not change position because nobody deeply investigated the topic is a pointer to how at least some other providers might change if we can get someone interested enough to look deeply at the science.
     
    WillowJ, Keebird, Yessica and 23 others like this.
  15. Alvin

    Alvin Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Its a lot more complicated then that, from the posts by @Webdog it took a lot of back and forth and convincing to get to here.
     
    WillowJ, Keebird, Yessica and 19 others like this.
  16. CFS_for_19_years

    CFS_for_19_years Established Member (Voting Rights)

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    73
    Location:
    USA
  17. Jonathan Edwards

    Jonathan Edwards Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    13,278
    Location:
    London, UK
    This whole section rings in my head as exactly what I realised when first introduced to ME by IiME. The first paragraph is as important as the second I think.


    The universe of patients that complain of fatigue is large. When you see them, you look for hypothyroidism, you look for mononucleosis, and so on, and when you don’t find anything, you do find a lot of people with a mental health condition, such as depression. But the percentage of people in that universe that actually have ME/CFS is small. People with ME/CFS are different though, and would say, ‘If I do something, I’m just wiped out.’

    So there is this group of patients that we now understand has an objective illness that is not psychiatric—whether it’s metabolic, neurological, or whatever. And what fascinates me is that this condition has been so mismanaged throughout medicine. What’s the sociology behind this? How did we remain ignorant for so long? We have made well-meaning recommendations that were harmful. I can say that—that’s the truth. There is no evidence that this is a primary psychiatric illness, and it’s not related to deconditioning at all. And so the treatments we have been advising aren’t the appropriate treatments.
     
    rainy, Keebird, Mithriel and 32 others like this.
  18. Andy

    Andy Committee Member

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    21,814
    Location:
    Hampshire, UK
    @Webdog is a super hero! Great job! :thumbup:
     
    Keebird, Atle, Comet and 24 others like this.
  19. Hoopoe

    Hoopoe Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    5,234
    So nice to hear this.
     
  20. Alvin

    Alvin Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    3,309
    Indeed, a huge contrast to what the PACErs claim about us.
    You would think we had multiple personalities on the same topic...
     

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