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Tom Ingman (Research Student) - Chalders protege? bPS Nextgen

Discussion in 'PsychoSocial ME/CFS News' started by Sly Saint, Sep 24, 2019.

  1. Sly Saint

    Sly Saint Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    https://kclpure.kcl.ac.uk/portal/en/persons/tom-ingman(a757866b-0975-4c36-bf27-bdb480bd1e30).html
    (can't find any more details on this)

    see also:
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26846611

    eta: 2nd tweet seems to have been deleted (following retweet by DT)
    here's a screen shot of the other one
    Fullscreen capture 01102019 114013.jpg
     
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2019
  2. InitialConditions

    InitialConditions Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    oh christ. just when I thought the Chalder group's research couldn't get any more pathetic, they add a nice dose of identity politics.
     
    Lidia, ladycatlover, MEMarge and 10 others like this.
  3. InitialConditions

    InitialConditions Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    until we have more people studying how we achieve recovery, rather than how we feel about recovery, progress will be at a snail's pace.
     
    Lidia, ladycatlover, MEMarge and 18 others like this.
  4. Hutan

    Hutan Moderator Staff Member

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    Pass the sick bag.

    I'll set up a thread in the Psychosocial Research sub-forum (here) for this gem illustrating yet again that untreated controls only get in the way when demonstrating that your treatment works.

     
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2019
    Lidia, ladycatlover, MEMarge and 15 others like this.
  5. Cinders66

    Cinders66 Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    That is so patronising. When you think how many cherished roles pwME are forced to abandon. I bet nowhere is there recognition we are actually sick. Have patients from the community, beyond David tuller, actually had any success in engaging with Chalder , even if just presenting that their experience of illness is entirely different to how she presents from her outsider position?
     
  6. Hutan

    Hutan Moderator Staff Member

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    :rofl: 'the changes clinicians should be looking for in recovery'
    According to the great trial that was PACE, I think the change was a decline in reported physical function...

    Screen Shot 2019-09-24 at 11.21.04 PM.png
     
  7. Mithriel

    Mithriel Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Nobody we know of in the pace trial regained old roles and abilities. I would love that.
     
  8. rvallee

    rvallee Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    In a way it's sad that Chalder is misleading other gullible people into a career dead-end, but then again whoever is foolish enough to not see through blatant pseudoscience deserves to pigeonhole themselves into a short and useless waste of a career.
     
    Lidia, ladycatlover, MEMarge and 9 others like this.
  9. strategist

    strategist Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    3,857
    A recovery from long chronic illness would come with having to readjust to the new level of health and build up one's life again. Is that what is talked about here, or is it the usual fantasy about the power of psychology making a recovery happen?
     
  10. Simbindi

    Simbindi Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    It's noticable that he used the Oxford criteria for selection of patients. With the expansion of IAPT and the fact that it seems beloved by all political parties in the UK, I expect he thinks he will have a long and lucrative career, working on CBT (and GET) for 'medically unexplained symptoms'.

    I anticipate that as more and more evidence mounts for the problems of post exertional malaise and a broken energy system in ME patients, the BPS crowd may begin to seperate 'ME with PEM' from CFS (Oxford criteria). I think we have already seen some papers where they seem to be laying the groundwork for this. Then they won't have to deal with those annoying ME patients who keep challenging and critiquing their work - but they will be left with a big pool of patients with 'medically unexplained fatigue' who they can continue to 'work with' in relative 'peace'.
     
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2019
    Lidia, ladycatlover, MEMarge and 13 others like this.
  11. TiredSam

    TiredSam Moderator Staff Member

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    This shows the BPS brigade's lie that researchers are being scared off for what it is, and demonstrates that they are successfully grooming a new generation of abusers.
     
    Lidia, ladycatlover, MEMarge and 21 others like this.
  12. Simbindi

    Simbindi Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    He's probably hoping for an 'award for bravery to medical services in the face of patient hostility' type award in the future...
     
  13. TiredSam

    TiredSam Moderator Staff Member

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    Being a psychobabbler certainly seems to be the easiest way to get a bravery award these days. They seem to be as good at devaluing the concept of bravery as they are at devaluing everything else.
     
  14. alktipping

    alktipping Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    how do you regain old roles or roles that where never achieved careers and raising families are time sensitive you cannot seriously think a person who has been chronically ill for decades can just have the life of a healthy person . have they invented age reversal or perhaps a society where life opportunities are not delineated by age .
     
    Lidia, ladycatlover, MEMarge and 11 others like this.
  15. Barry

    Barry Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    It is actually perfectly clear - it doesn't bl**dy work. Full stop.
     
  16. rvallee

    rvallee Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Not much point trying to find any sense or substance to this, there isn't. It's just meaningless neo-Freudian drivel and more of a creative writing exercise than anything to do with reality.
     
  17. Sly Saint

    Sly Saint Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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  18. Mithriel

    Mithriel Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    I will finally get my UK old age pension in November. At the weekend some friends put photos up on facebook from our schooldays. This gave me a bit of an emotional crisis as I have never answered the question "What will I be when I grow up?" Sicker than I was at 14 is the only real answer :)

    I have had a good life in many ways, a painful struggle in others and my common sense tells me I would be glad to retire and bored with my work whatever it turned out to be, but just, maybe, I would have been a success!

    I don't dwell on things, life is too precious, but just occasionally. If certain people had not got their grubby little hands on ME there might have been a treatment 30 years ago and many of us would have had a chance to do something.

    Must mention my admiration for those people as sick or sicker than me who have managed to do so much good for us, a real success in the world by any standards.
     
  19. Hutan

    Hutan Moderator Staff Member

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    :hug: Mithriel. You wrote that beautifully. As a mother of a wonderful, bright young man who got ME when he was 13, it makes me sad and angry. I wish the BPS proponents had to read what you wrote.
     
  20. Mithriel

    Mithriel Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Well, when I said something like this to a psychiatrist he told me my subconscious did not want to work :)

    Things are much more hopeful now with a new generation investigating the biology of ME and advances in biochemistry and medical physics. I hope your son will benefit from that.
     

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