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The Times: Nobel scientist’s researcher finds humiliating error

Discussion in 'Health News and Research unrelated to ME/CFS' started by Cheshire, Dec 18, 2017.

  1. Cheshire

    Cheshire Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/nobel-scientists-researcher-finds-humiliating-error-b58ltxwwp
     
  2. Invisible Woman

    Invisible Woman Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    And I respect him as much, if not more, for coming clean and admitting it than if the mistake hadn't been made in the first place.
     
  3. Esther12

    Esther12 Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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  4. Moosie

    Moosie Established Member (Voting Rights)

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    How refreshing.
     
  5. Allele

    Allele Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Why do we as a culture agree to perceive mistakes/errors as humiliating?
    If we would collectively stop doing this, innovation could be freed up from fear of mistakes, as well as
    an end to the lengths people are currently going to cover up their mistakes.
     
  6. Esther12

    Esther12 Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    But not making mistakes is good!

    There are degrees, and making a mistake but then owning up to it and responding appropriately shouldn't normally be a shameful thing, but I'd still prefer to have a surgeon who made fewer mistakes than average.

    Some mistakes do cause great harm to others, and that's always going to be seen as a bad thing. I don't think we're ever going to destigmatise mistakes, and attempting to create a 'no blame' culture risks allowing people who have behaved badly to claim it was all just an unfortunate series of mistakes, so they should not be humiliated for this.
     
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  7. Allele

    Allele Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Pretty much exactly what I was trying to say, @Esther12
    Defo not advocating no-blame culture. Taking responsibility is a must, but sadly a disappearing trait in modern times
     
  8. Esther12

    Esther12 Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    I apologise for my mistaken interpretation of your post... no blame!

    From the look of your avatar, I now imagine you as not exactly fitting in with the culture of modern times.
     
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  9. Allele

    Allele Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Haha! Understatement of the century! :rofl:
     
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  10. Forbin

    Forbin Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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  11. Wonko

    Wonko Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    There are degrees of "wrongness" and penalties should correspond with how much damage is caused.
    edited to add - and intent of course, it's one thing to make an error, it's another to make an error, realise it's an error, and then deliberately profit from it.

    Or, to deliberately create a study to fraudulently give a certain result, that you know is wrong, get your mates to promote it, shout down, legally or otherwise, anyone who says it's wrong, use it to change health/welfare policy worldwide...and get yourself a f'ing knighthood in the process...now that's a calling a tomato a suspension bridge level of wrong.
     
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2017
  12. Barry

    Barry Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Various companies I've worked for have notionally encouraged their workforce to have the courage to get things wrong in their pursuance of getting things right overall, but rarely known them to back such aspirations up with real policy.
     
  13. Barry

    Barry Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    It depends what you mean by a mistake, and I think there can be a lot of confusion here. If you are stuck in a maze and have to start finding the way out, is it a "mistake" to head down a dead end and have to report you did not find the way out? Or is it a success in its way, because you have moved closer to finding the real way out?

    I appreciate this is not the same as the sort of mistake you are speaking of, but "mistake" and "failure" are often taken out of context. And where humans are involved, there are always going to be mistakes - owning up to them is then far better for science and society that covering them up - or just plain denying them.
     

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