The Sugar Conspiracy (The Guardian) "scientific inquiry prone to the eternal rules of human social life"

TrixieStix

Senior Member (Voting Rights)
This a very long article, but a good one. I'm already familiar with the history of the now debunked theory that "saturated fat is bad and causes heart disease", but this article has some details and background I had not read about before. While reading it these specific passages stood out to me in that some of these same things are likely at play in the world of ME/CFS.....

In a 2015 paper titled Does Science Advance One Funeral at a Time?, a team of scholars at the National Bureau of Economic Research sought an empirical basis for a remark made by the physicist Max Planck: “A new scientific truth does not triumph by convincing its opponents and making them see the light, but rather because its opponents eventually die, and a new generation grows up that is familiar with it.”

The researchers identified more than 12,000 “elite” scientists from different fields. The criteria for elite status included funding, number of publications, and whether they were members of the National Academies of Science or the Institute of Medicine. Searching obituaries, the team found 452 who had died before retirement. They then looked to see what happened to the fields from which these celebrated scientists had unexpectedly departed, by analysing publishing patterns.

What they found confirmed the truth of Planck’s maxim. Junior researchers who had worked closely with the elite scientists, authoring papers with them, published less. At the same time, there was a marked increase in papers by newcomers to the field, who were less likely to cite the work of the deceased eminence. The articles by these newcomers were substantive and influential, attracting a high number of citations. They moved the whole field along.

A scientist is part of what the Polish philosopher of science Ludwik Fleck called a “thought collective”: a group of people exchanging ideas in a mutually comprehensible idiom. The group, suggested Fleck, inevitably develops a mind of its own, as the individuals in it converge on a way of communicating, thinking and feeling.

This makes scientific inquiry prone to the eternal rules of human social life: deference to the charismatic, herding towards majority opinion, punishment for deviance, and intense discomfort with admitting to error. Of course, such tendencies are precisely what the scientific method was invented to correct for, and over the long run, it does a good job of it. In the long run, however, we’re all dead, quite possibly sooner than we would be if we hadn’t been following a diet based on poor advice.


https://getpocket.com/explore/item/the-sugar-conspiracy
 
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In a 2015 paper titled Does Science Advance One Funeral at a Time?, a team of scholars at the National Bureau of Economic Research sought an empirical basis for a remark made by the physicist Max Planck: “A new scientific truth does not triumph by convincing its opponents and making them see the light, but rather because its opponents eventually die, and a new generation grows up that is familiar with it.”

A rather depressing thought for us in the ME community in the UK, as though some of the BPS cultist are at retiring age, there is still a number of proffessors (deliberate pun) in their forties and fifties. Can we wait another thirty years to see any significant improvements in UK science and healthy policy in relation to ME? A lot of suffering can happen in that time.
 
Our problem in ME in the UK is that the old guys like Wessely White and Sharpe may eventually die off, but they have cleverly cloned their ideas not on clever doctors who might think for themselves once the 'gurus' have popped their clogs, but on minions with no medical training (psych's and OT's mostly) who don't have the wherewithal to take a scientific view of the crap they've been sold and have been obediently propagating the poison ever after. And the clones breed another generation of clones...
 
Wow! when you read this it's like time travelling into the future & reading an article about ME. Tell me this series of quotes doesnt read exactly like the story of ME/PACE etc..

the journalist Nina Teicholz traces the history of the proposition that saturated fats cause heart disease, and reveals the remarkable extent to which its progress from controversial theory to accepted truth was driven, not by new evidence, but by the influence of a few powerful personalities, one in particular.

Teicholz’s book also describes how an establishment of senior nutrition scientists, at once insecure about its medical authority and vigilant for threats to it, consistently exaggerated the case for low-fat diets, while turning its guns on those who offered evidence or argument to the contrary.


If Yudkin published a paper, Keys would excoriate it, and him. He called Yudkin’s theory “a mountain of nonsense”, and accused him of issuing “propaganda” for the meat and dairy industries. “Yudkin and his commercial backers are not deterred by the facts,” he said. “They continue to sing the same discredited tune.”
The British Sugar Bureau dismissed Yudkin’s claims about sugar as “emotional assertions”; the World Sugar Research Organisation called his book “science fiction”.

Throughout the 1960s, Keys accumulated institutional power. He secured places for himself and his allies on the boards of the most influential bodies in American healthcare, including the American Heart Association and the National Institutes of Health. From these strongholds, they directed funds to like-minded researchers, and issued authoritative advice to the nation.

This apparent certainty was unwarranted: even some supporters of the fat hypothesis admitted that the evidence for it was still inconclusive. But Keys held a trump card....
The Seven Countries Study was finally published as a 211-page monograph in 1970. It showed a correlation between intake of saturated fats and deaths from heart disease, just as Keys had predicted. ....
Every time you question this man Keys, he says, ‘I’ve got 5,000 cases. How many do you have?’). Despite its monumental stature, however, the Seven Countries Study, which was the basis for a cascade of subsequent papers by its original authors, was a rickety construction. There was no objective basis for the countries chosen by Keys, and it is hard to avoid the conclusion that he picked only those he suspected would support his hypothesis......

The study’s biggest limitation was inherent to its method.

Years later, the Seven Countries study’s lead Italian researcher, Alessandro Menotti, went back to the data, and found that the food that correlated most closely with deaths from heart disease was not saturated fat, but sugar. By then it was too late. The Seven Countries study had become canonical, and the fat hypothesis was enshrined in official advice.

Another landmark review, published in 2010, in the American Society for Nutrition, and authored by, among others, Ronald Krauss, a highly respected researcher and physician at the University of California, stated “there is no significant evidence for concluding that dietary saturated fat is associated with an increased risk of CHD or CVD [coronary heart disease and cardiovascular disease]”.

Many nutritionists refused to accept these conclusions. The journal that published Krauss’s review, wary of outrage among its readers, prefaced it with a rebuttal by a former right-hand man of Ancel Keys, which implied that since Krauss’s findings contradicted every national and international dietary recommendation, they must be flawed. The circular logic is symptomatic of a field with an unusually high propensity for ignoring evidence that does not fit its conventional wisdom.
As one nutritionist explained to Nina Teicholz, with delicate understatement: “Scientists believe that saturated fat is bad for you, and there is a good deal of reluctance toward accepting evidence to the contrary.”

I cant read any more right now, but yikes, if the answer to the problem is for younger researchers to replace those who come to the end of their lives, then we are in deep trouble, but at least it's some hope for the younger generation. It's unspeakably bad if the change doesn't come until then but tbh i was concerned that it never would.

For any CBT/GET Biopsychosocial proponent/fan/researcher/defender or journalist reading this thread.... None of these remarks here should be misinterpreted or construed as any kind of desire that anyone would die.
Quite the reverse, i want all people to stop suffering & dying, including those with ME/CFS.
 
Max Planck: “A new scientific truth does not triumph by convincing its opponents and making them see the light, but rather because its opponents eventually die, and a new generation grows up that is familiar with it.”

Can we put this on a giant banner - addressed to Wessely, Crawley, etc - and hang it outside their offices?

Perhaps accompanied by a grinning Grim Reaper.
 
Throughout the 1960s, Keys accumulated institutional power. He secured places for himself and his allies on the boards of the most influential bodies in American healthcare, including the American Heart Association and the National Institutes of Health. From these strongholds, they directed funds to like-minded researchers, and issued authoritative advice to the nation.
The circular logic is symptomatic of a field with an unusually high propensity for ignoring evidence that does not fit its conventional wisdom.
Do I laugh or cry? :bored:
 
The author of the original article https://www.theguardian.com/society/2016/apr/07/the-sugar-conspiracy-robert-lustig-john-yudkin

is Ian Leslie
Ian Leslie, the author of Curious: the Desire to Know and Why Your Future Depends On It, is a regular contributor to the Long Read. Twitter: @mrianleslie

Does anyone know anything about him? Might it be worth contacting him? I just wonder whether having researched an article like this, he could be more open minded to the truth & the similarities of what is currently happening to us, than many journalists are.
I'm afraid i havent the courage to contact him, i'm feeling a bit wobbly at the moment & am not succinct enough in my writing in any case i dont think, but perhaps it's worth considering? Be great to direct him to @dave30th ?

I cant help thinking that the story he has written here about a historical event, is what we are currently living through & i'd have thought he'd be interested in that.

I'm certainly going to look into his book, i hope its on Audible
 
Our problem in ME in the UK is that the old guys like Wessely White and Sharpe may eventually die off, but they have cleverly cloned their ideas not on clever doctors who might think for themselves once the 'gurus' have popped their clogs, but on minions with no medical training (psych's and OT's mostly) who don't have the wherewithal to take a scientific view of the crap they've been sold and have been obediently propagating the poison ever after. And the clones breed another generation of clones...
Star Wars sprang to mind @Trish
 
The author of the original article https://www.theguardian.com/society/2016/apr/07/the-sugar-conspiracy-robert-lustig-john-yudkin

is Ian Leslie
Ian Leslie, the author of Curious: the Desire to Know and Why Your Future Depends On It, is a regular contributor to the Long Read. Twitter: @mrianleslie

Does anyone know anything about him? Might it be worth contacting him? I just wonder whether having researched an article like this, he could be more open minded to the truth & the similarities of what is currently happening to us, than many journalists are.
I'm afraid i havent the courage to contact him, i'm feeling a bit wobbly at the moment & am not succinct enough in my writing in any case i dont think, but perhaps it's worth considering? Be great to direct him to @dave30th ?

I cant help thinking that the story he has written here about a historical event, is what we are currently living through & i'd have thought he'd be interested in that.

I'm certainly going to look into his book, i hope its on Audible

Looks like he might have a personal connection:

 
The story continues ...

It’s still too soon to assess what NuSI has added to the nutrition science canon. Results from the two outstanding NuSI-backed studies are due later this year. The fourth and largest one, conducted at Stanford, randomized 600 overweight-to-obese subjects into low-fat versus low-carb diets for a year and looked at whether or not their weight loss could be explained by their metabolism or their DNA. Published this February in JAMA, the study found no differences between the two diets and no meaningful relationship between weight loss and insulin secretion.

https://www.wired.com/story/how-a-dollar40-million-nutrition-science-crusade-fell-apart/
 
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