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The IAPT Pathway for People with Long-term Physical Health Conditions and MUS. Full implementation guidance.

Discussion in 'PsychoSocial ME/CFS News' started by Esther12, Nov 28, 2018.

  1. Dx Revision Watch

    Dx Revision Watch Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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  2. Esther12

    Esther12 Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    I'm sure I've ssen this PPS site criticised here before, but couldn't find it when searching so am risking a re-post: https://ppss.cumbria.nhs.uk/
     
  3. Sly Saint

    Sly Saint Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    IAPT’s Training Of Therapist’s On Working With Long Term Physical Conditions Muddies The Waters on Efficacy

    20th March 2019

    http://www.cbtwatch.com/

    eta: see also earlier post on blog
    All IAPT Generated Studies Breach Evaluation Guidelines
     
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2019
    alktipping, lycaena, Esther12 and 5 others like this.
  4. Trish

    Trish Moderator Staff Member

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    I've just had a look at the CBT watch website. It consists of a series of short blog posts by a Dr Mike Scott, and a failed attempt to get a forum going for CBT therapists to share ideas and concerns that has 3 empty threads started by Scott in 2017.
    So basically it's a personal blog.
    There is no information I can see about who Dr Mike Scott is, but he is clearly concerned about IAPT.
     
  5. Sly Saint

    Sly Saint Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Comment under the previous blog:
     
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2019
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  6. Sly Saint

    Sly Saint Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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  7. Jonathan Edwards

    Jonathan Edwards Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    One of the confusing things about criticism of IAPT is that a lot of it comes from psychotherapists who prefer to tailor their own particular methods to each patient. Whether they have any better evidence base, who knows.
     
  8. Barry

    Barry Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    This legal firm seem to have been tracking the PACE trial issues for some time now, and this shows they are keeping themselves up to date. I think their continuing interest maybe means they smell the potential for a lot of business that might come their way.

    upload_2019-3-22_12-25-38.png
     
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  9. Sly Saint

    Sly Saint Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    The Improving Access to
    Psychological Therapies (IAPT)
    Pathway for People with
    Long-term Physical Health
    Conditions and Medically
    Unexplained Symptoms

    from March 2018
    https://www.england.nhs.uk/wp-conte...al-therapies-long-term-conditions-pathway.pdf

    "70% of people with MUS such as IBS or CFS will also experience co-morbid depression or anxiety disorders"

    do we know where this stat came from?

    also, isn't most of the 'research evidence' that the recommendations are based on mostly using CBT to treat the actual 'condition' (ie cfs) as opposed to treating co-morbid depression or anxiety?

    If the idea of IAPT is to combine the medical and mental healthcare, where/what is the medical care for pw ME or CFS?
     
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  10. NelliePledge

    NelliePledge Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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  11. Jonathan Edwards

    Jonathan Edwards Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Looking at this document two things send out for me.

    Firstly it is written like an advertising brochure rather than an evidence-based guidance document.

    Secondly, it is completely opaque is to what type of CBT is being suggested for 'MUS' and for what purpose. The most ambiguous sentence is:

    An expert advisory group was convened by NHS England to review existing NICE guidance for the use of psychological therapies for the treatment of depression and anxiety disorders in the context of LTCs and the treatment of MUS (see the box on the right).

    This makes it sound as if this is treatment for MUS, not for co-morbid anxiety and depression. But the box on the right does not tell us.
     
  12. rvallee

    rvallee Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    There are lies, damned lies and statistics.

    This one is a beauty: this patient population is systematically and incompetently misdiagnosed with mental health issues, therefore they statistically suffer from mental health issues. Ethically, this is like police officers mass-planting drugs on suspects and showing those in statistics to justify why they were justified in making those arrests.

    It's a self-reinforcing ouroboros of bullshit.
     
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  13. Simbindi

    Simbindi Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Last edited: Jul 1, 2019
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  14. chrisb

    chrisb Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    That shows the success of the thirty year plan. Never mind the effect on the kulaks.
     
  15. Amw66

    Amw66 Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    adambeyoncelowe Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Keela Too Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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  18. Simbindi

    Simbindi Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    I just randomly saw this last night so wanted to post a link to it without making any comment. However, on revisiting the site, it is notable that the list doesn't include 'Long term conditions', or the relevant links to the NICE guidance on, for example, diabetes, MS or Parkinsons.
     
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2019
  19. Sly Saint

    Sly Saint Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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  20. Trish

    Trish Moderator Staff Member

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    I notice one of the responses to the blog linked above highlights this training day on LTC's and MUS by the Royal College of Psychiatry:
    Working with Long Term Physical Illness & Medically Unexplained Symptoms

    This description of it gives me the horrors:

     
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