The Chrysalis Effect

rvallee said:
Quite a nice workaround that evidence-based medicine has. A similar ruling should apply to Jon Stone's neurosymptoms.org website. But it's OK to hype invalid claims in EBM, things you can't do in advertising. No need to advertise if you can promote fake clinical evidence, however. It's marketing in itself.

This is exactly the same. I mean literally, they use the BPS model to justify their pseudoscience, because both are the same pseudoscience. But it doesn't seem to bother anyone in healthcare. Just like it doesn't bother the LC deniers that trolls and antivaccine folks agree with them all the way.

I'd love to see more of that. There are a lot of similar marketing claims for CBT made by private clinics. Of course someone can probably simply copy-paste the whole thing and call it The butterfly method and get around it.
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You are 100% correct and I’ve noticed it is the neuro journals focusing on FND that seem to be almost 100% only abstract accessibility pre paywall.

and who knows what the actual truth is in the ‘research’ vs the claims in the abstract because these are not the normal format snd are method light snd manifesto heavy.

I think so badly there is a case to say that these journals using abstracts not having to be accurate to research and the paywalls in this ways means it is very much just being used as advertising and propaganda NOT for ‘the paper underneath’ but for nonsense ideological based actions to be done by eg GPs - without anyone being able to check if there is even attempt at evidence backing it up. Saying someone could pay s fortune to click through and see the paper has no method and is nonsense really isn’t a get out if hail if the abstract is basically in evidenced and doesn’t make it clear as they know most readers won’t go through to find that out.
 
@bobbler

Please remind me what the CMA and ILM are.

Those orgs can be then informed about the ASA Ruling on Chrysalis, to preserve their own credibility/reputations at the very least.
 
Lou B Lou said:
@bobbler

Please remind me what the CMA and ILM are.

Those orgs can be then informed about the ASA Ruling on Chrysalis, to preserve their own credibility/reputations at the very least.
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CMa is competition and markets authority. with e.g. university courses then the information on brochures and websites has to be accurate and provide examples of evidence for each claim made in any materials

the ILM seems to be what this course is claiming it is 'with' and that might be the Institute of Leadership and Management, who do courses in those areas and have a reputaion therefore to uphold. I'd assume they'd be keen to know if for example the context of a course doesn't actually help those with ME/CFS therefore because there is an issue wih quality of what is being sold ie the content if it doesn't meet its stated objectives.
 
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Thanks @bobbler .

It looks like Chrysalis/Elaine Wilkins may now (after ASA ruling) be misleading the practitioners they recruit/have recruited as to the credibility, legality of the Claims Wilkins makes for Chrysalis in relation to ME. The claims made about Chrysalis are no longer legal in advertising.





Chrysalis

'Accredited Specialists Directory

Welcome to the directory of Therapists and Practitioners who have dedicated their skills to helping sufferers of M.E, CFS and Fibromyalgia in their recovery, engaging their own tools with the Chrysalis Effect Recovery Programme.

These Practitioners have undergone extensive training as ILM Accredited Wellbeing Coaches and have successfully completed a Specialist FHT Accreditation to provide cohesive, step by step, recovery protocols enabling them to tailor the recovery programme to individual need.'

https://thechrysaliseffect.co.uk/accredited-specialists/
 
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FHT - Federation of Holistic Therapists

https://www.fht.org.uk/welcome-to-accreditation



Edit to add


ILM - The Institute of Leadership & Management Wellbeing Coaching courses.


This one, for example is only 2 days online training .....

'This Online Face to Face, ILM Recognised programme is held over 4 half days, with 1 hour of home-learning following each session, will help you empower clients to improve their health and quality of life using the knowledge, skills and confidence to make necessary lifestyle and behavioural changes.'

https://www.britishschoolofcoaching.com/courses/wellness-coaching/
 
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Lou B Lou said:
Thanks @bobbler .

It looks like Chrysalis/Elaine Wilkins may now (after ASA ruling) be misleading the practitioners they recruit/have recruited as to the credibility, legality of the Claims Wilkins makes for Chrysalis in relation to ME. The claims made about Chrysalis are no longer advertising legal.





Chrysalis

'Accredited Specialists Directory

Welcome to the directory of Therapists and Practitioners who have dedicated their skills to helping sufferers of M.E, CFS and Fibromyalgia in their recovery, engaging their own tools with the Chrysalis Effect Recovery Programme.

These Practitioners have undergone extensive training as ILM Accredited Wellbeing Coaches and have successfully completed a Specialist FHT Accreditation to provide cohesive, step by step, recovery protocols enabling them to tailor the recovery programme to individual need.'

https://thechrysaliseffect.co.uk/accredited-specialists/
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Sorry just corrected original post ILM is institute of leadership and management
 
The Chrysalis Effect FB today 7/9/2023 -

'Sometimes our beliefs and values are not helpful and no longer serve us. This can prevent recovery and keep us stuck. At The Chrysalis Effect, we encourage you to take a look internally and examine where your thoughts have come from and if they are still helpful.'


'At the Chrysalis Effect, we focus on beliefs and values as part of examining our psychological health. Sometimes old values no longer serve us and may have origniated from other people such as parents. Sometimes our beliefs may not be accurate and need to be challenged and reframed.

This is just part of the process of recoverting from #CFS
#fibromyalgia and #postviralfatigue . Recovery is a multifacited process of looking at body, mind and environment.

To find out more, www.thechrysaliseffect.co.uk.
#thechrysaliseffect'

https://www.facebook.com/thechrysaliseffect




So, now no mention of ME or ME/CFS - but still advertising recovery from CFS, Fibro and Post Viral Fatigue.
 
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Lou B Lou said:
The Chrysalis Effect FB today 7/9/2023 -

'Sometimes our beliefs and values are not helpful and no longer serve us. This can prevent recovery and keep us stuck. At The Chrysalis Effect, we encourage you to take a look internally and examine where your thoughts have come from and if they are still helpful.'


'At the Chrysalis Effect, we focus on beliefs and values as part of examining our psychological health. Sometimes old values no longer serve us and may have origniated from other people such as parents. Sometimes our beliefs may not be accurate and need to be challenged and reframed.

This is just part of the process of recoverting from #CFS
#fibromyalgia and #postviralfatigue . Recovery is a multifacited process of looking at body, mind and environment.

To find out more, www.thechrysaliseffect.co.uk.
#thechrysaliseffect'

https://www.facebook.com/thechrysaliseffect




So, now no mention of ME or ME/CFS - but still advertising recovery from CFS, Fibro and Post Viral Fatigue.
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The deceit they utilise in working around the ASA ruling, simply illustrates what their "beliefs and values" really amount to, and they have no intention of changing - deceit.
 
Edit to add - This commercial masterclass in how to sell the Chrysalis Effect is for the diverse holistic 'practitioners' who Elaine Wilkins recruits to train with her to deliver The Chrysalis Effect to people who are sick with ME, Fibro and other long term disabling diseases. She tells the practitioners that they can incorporate Chrysalis Effect with whatever their therapy is and it will lead to people recovering from the serious disabling diseases.




'Chrysalis Effect Heart-centred sales Masterclass'


Includes

- The 4 key elements that combine to create a genuinely effective and heart-centred sales conversation

- “7 Steps to Yes!” structure for an authentic sales conversation.

- Some things you can do (and avoid doing) to ensure you never unintentionally come across as pushy.



'Catherine Watkin is the UK’s leading expert in authentic and heart-centred sales.

She works with heart-centred business owners like you, who want a great business but don’t want to compromise their integrity. She helps them get more clients saying "Yes Please!" in a way that feels authentic, comfortable and is always in alignment with your values.'

https://catherinewatkin.com/chrysalis-effect-masterclass/


..................................




The words "Chrysalis Effect" and "integrity" simply cannot exist on the same page!
 
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Elaine Wilkins STILL advertising ME Recovery on her Chrysalis Effect Website - she evidently thinks the ASA ruling just doesn't apply to her and her business.



'For Practitioners

SET UP YOUR PRACTICE FOR RECOVERY SUCCESS
Make changes to your practices to enable recovery success from M.E., Chronic Fatigue Syndrome or Fibromyalgia clients. Click the button below to complete your details and download your 12 point checklist'
https://thechrysaliseffect.co.uk/
 
Lou B Lou said:
Elaine Wilkins STILL advertising ME Recovery on her Chrysalis Effect Website - she evidently thinks the ASA ruling just doesn't apply to her and her business.



'For Practitioners

SET UP YOUR PRACTICE FOR RECOVERY SUCCESS
Make changes to your practices to enable recovery success from M.E., Chronic Fatigue Syndrome or Fibromyalgia clients. Click the button below to complete your details and download your 12 point checklist'
https://thechrysaliseffect.co.uk/
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I there anything ASA can now do?
Or still no?
 
Trading Standards work with the ASA



https://www.asa.org.uk/static/uploaded/5b773c7e-0e04-41bd-b09b30a440d44fd4.pdf

'This is a short guide to how the Advertising Standards Authority (ASA) and Trading Standards work together to enforce the advertising rules.'


The ASA can and will refer cases to Trading Standards when:

* A marketer is unwilling or unable to follow our rules
* Further sanctions have not brought a marketer into line

The ASA’s preferred approach is to work with you to get your marketing right. Our legal backstop is our last resort.


Trading Standards also has a range of further sanctions available to them (see the link above)




The highest sanctions available to Trading Standards include:


1. Criminal prosecution: following an investigation a case can be taken to either the Crown or Magistrates’ Court.

Penalties include:
Fines: fines can be unlimited
Imprisonment: prison sentences are usually up to two years
 
Thanks @Lou B Lou


I wonder if ASA have informal guidelines on how many times they warn and are ignored before they escalate to Trading Standards involvement.

Or if ASA decide when to refer based on how serious they judge the consequences of the misleading claims to be?
 
Lou B Lou said:
Elaine Wilkins STILL advertising ME Recovery on her Chrysalis Effect Website - she evidently thinks the ASA ruling just doesn't apply to her and her business.



'For Practitioners

SET UP YOUR PRACTICE FOR RECOVERY SUCCESS
Make changes to your practices to enable recovery success from M.E., Chronic Fatigue Syndrome or Fibromyalgia clients. Click the button below to complete your details and download your 12 point checklist'
https://thechrysaliseffect.co.uk/
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Hmmm... given the wording, I wonder if this actually falls under the rules here. They're not marketing this as a treatment for ME, they're marketing this as a training program for, uh, practitioners, I guess, to enable their clients to "enable recovery success" from ME. The clients aren't patients, they're, well, scammers who scam patients.

Of course they're also marketing it for patients, but the wording above could pass through. You'd have to enforce against every one of them, and LP are already doing this without any problem.

Of course it should, but enforcement is 99.9% of any system of rules. And since this is actual standard practice in health care, it's basically impossible to enforce. It's not as if this program is any different from any "mind-body" stuff marketed by the NHS. The description is the exact same. As is the evidence for it. It's nothing, of course, but when nothing is official, this is what happens.

Even the wording is identical. It's "coordinated". A "path to recovery". "Guided help". They don't seem to use the term biopsychosocial other than in one bio, but you could pass this to any GP in the country with a NHS logo and none of them would be able to tell the difference.
 
The Chrysalis public site still has the link to patients to 'The Recovery Programme'. The Chrysalis annual conference is called 'The M.E, CFS, Fibromyalgia and Long-COVID Recovery - Years of Transforming Lives Conference 2023' 12th to 14th October.
 
rvallee said:
Hmmm... given the wording, I wonder if this actually falls under the rules here. They're not marketing this as a treatment for ME, they're marketing this as a training program for, uh, practitioners, I guess, to enable their clients to "enable recovery success" from ME. The clients aren't patients, they're, well, scammers who scam patients.

Of course they're also marketing it for patients, but the wording above could pass through. You'd have to enforce against every one of them, and LP are already doing this without any problem.

Of course it should, but enforcement is 99.9% of any system of rules. And since this is actual standard practice in health care, it's basically impossible to enforce. It's not as if this program is any different from any "mind-body" stuff marketed by the NHS. The description is the exact same. As is the evidence for it. It's nothing, of course, but when nothing is official, this is what happens.

Even the wording is identical. It's "coordinated". A "path to recovery". "Guided help". They don't seem to use the term biopsychosocial other than in one bio, but you could pass this to any GP in the country with a NHS logo and none of them would be able to tell the difference.
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I see your point but their 'to enable recovery success' is untrue. It doesn't, whether it is a patient or someone who decides to deliver a course to them there won't be any 'enabling' or 'recovery'. If she was selling a course entitled 'how to scam vulnerable people with ME/CFS or CFS or whatever tweak she thinks will, as per BPS protocol, given them a new name that gives them another bite of the cherry' the marketing for the teach-the-teachers course would at least be accurate if that is what the course was and I guess then she could include suggestions like claiming it recovers people being a nice buzzword to claim whether it does or not and then that would be walking that line of whether she is responsible for telling someone else to do something naughty that they would get 'done' for?

I'm not sure that in marketing terms outside the NHS one can do the 'helps you recover*' *NB recovery is defined in terms of someone not getting any better and maybe getting worse are allowed by any of the regulators. That is why I find it so shocking that BPS gets to do it in their literature - for example the CMA makes points that you can't use smallprint to wriggle out of things, and everything claimed does actually have to be evidenced - beyond the dodgy standards of the publications we see so many of their papers managing to pass through you can't take the p score vs impact and 'do a Cochrane 2019 FOI emails' when you actually either have no impact or if you claim an impact it has no signifcance/is unreliable and then 'accidentally' leave off the caveat. And someone else having done that for you in their abstract vs the data itself doesn't suddenly open the floodgates for you to blame that other person - particularly once the agency investigating has flagged it is inaccurate to you?

It's all nonsense of course because they are just selling a combo of bigotry and outsiders' self-delusion that it is holistic like offering massages to relax people going through cancer treatment which is stressful so something relaxing can do no harm, except this isn't some relaxing course - it's a brainwashing thing that has been jammed together by someone with a background in MLM and hard sales and goodness knows where the idea of 'therapeutic' with even the cfs-cbt original false beliefs crap came from anyway? - was it just made up I think from a bigots own brain and gut narcissistic presumption towards those it was directed at? Copying 'the vibe' of that doesn't make it 'covered' - even if e.g. Chalder ever got any genuine results for her stuff then it would only be for the exact same course delivered the exact same way not a floodgate for variations on the theme'.

And the idea that she is selling a 'vision board' and somehow encouraging picturing what you can't have because of your disability will cure that wife of yours to start running around more instead of looking ill, no matter how manipulatively worded, is just that. The people doing this course, some of whom mightn't be terrible human beings to begin with, are being sold to become bigots who harm and chivvy ill people under the guise of claiming it 'helps'. Some might want to learn how to bully whilst hiding it under words that pretend to relatives they are Florence Nightingale but I think it is clear this isn't being up front and there will be some who think terrifyingly they are being taught something that really 'helps' - is there such a think as being gaslighted into gaslighting others? At least the former would be more honest and accurate to the direct target market, but then you'd have the issue down the line for the course-deliverers potentially mis-selling to patients as you've suggested?
 
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Elaine Wilkins' 'Recovery' webinar on Pacing :



'Pacing is the go-to phrase in recovery, but it's not always easy to do. As A-Types, it feels completely alien and can take some serious practice.

Elaine is delighted to be joined this month for our live recovery webinar by Sally-Anne Atkinson, fellow recoverer, Occupational therapist and recovery specialist in training. Sally admits that she really struggled with pacing in her recovery, but once she mastered it, it became essential for her recovery.

So join Elaine and Sally to find solutions to enable you to pace yourself more effectively during your recovery



On this session Sally will be looking at:

  • What is Pacing?
  • Difference between graded activity and pacing
  • Why is it important?
  • What are our common difficulties with pacing?
  • Why is pacing difficult for us? - Bio-psycho-social reasons
  • How can we pace?




    The Chrysalis Pacing Webinar is with
    Sally-Anne Atkinson

    #Recover, struggler (with pacing) and Occupational Therapist.

    Sally is currently working for the NHS in mental health liaison
    as well as training to be a Chrysalis Effect Trauma Informed Wellbeing coach.    '






    Elaine Wilkins at it again - her Webinars may be seductive to new or naive patients who actually do struggle with pacing. Elaine is devious in defining ME sufferers as 'A Types' but that supports Elaine's equally devious framing of ME as a stress caused/burnout 'condition'.


  • Linkedin

    "Sally-Anne Atkinson
    Occupational Therapist at Cheshire & Wirral Partnership NHS Trust





 
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