The '25% have severe ME' statistic

PeterW

Senior Member (Voting Rights)
Hi All,

I have just had a request from the Department of Health & Social Care policy team for a citation supporting the often cited statistic that 25% of people with ME are severely or very severely affected.

Does anyone have a supported source for this? My first round of searches (ME-paedia etc) have not shown a good source.

Thanks!
 
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Hi All,

I have just had a request from the Department of Health & Social Care policy team for a citation supporting the often cited statistic that 25% of people with ME are severely or very severely affected.

Does anyone have a supported source for this? My first round of searches (ME-paedia etc) have not shown a good source.

Thanks!
I'm not sure where the figures come from but the DWP handbook 1993 have this
https://www.s4me.info/threads/why-are-the-majority-of-pwme-rarely-mentioned.7732/page-2#post-154185

This paper (https://mdpi-res.com/d_attachment/h...healthcare-09-01331-v3.pdf?version=1634002990) cites another (reference 6: https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/1742395316644770) that gives the 25% figure, but I can't access it.

Edit: The 25% figure is quoted in the abstract, but it seems that this study might equate housebound with severe, which might not necessarily be the case.
thread
https://www.s4me.info/threads/homeb...onic-fatigue-syndrome-2021-jason-et-al.18735/
 
I have an idea that the MEA, specifically Charles Shepherd might be able to answer your question @PeterW

I'm not sure why & it could be completely spurious, but i have an idea that i have seen that Q asked on MEA facebook some time ago and he answered in a way that satisfied me (i wasnt the questioner but i remember thinking it was a good question and thinking the answer was reasonable) But my memory of it is vague so I may have imagined if or mixed it up with something else
 
I have just had a request from the Department of Health & Social Care policy team for a citation supporting the often cited statistic that 25% of people with ME are severely or very severely affected.

Is this worth trying to justify? Since we know that ascertainment and variation in criteria make it pretty impossible to give a prevalence accurate to better than a factor of two and grading severity is full of caveats all we can usefully say is that a substantial minority are severely affected.



From my perspective as a rheumatoid arthritis physician 'sever or very severe' doesn't seem a very useful tag anyway. We used to have four grades of disability defined largely in terms of being able to work, walk or self-care. In retrospect it would have been more use just to have figures on how many could work, walk or self care. I don't remember having any figures on percentages in each grade but for conditions like ME and RA where there are an unknown number of people wandering around with mild disease, many undiagnosed, it seems pretty hard to know. Much more use to know the absolute number of people with severe disability.
 
This paper (https://mdpi-res.com/d_attachment/h...healthcare-09-01331-v3.pdf?version=1634002990) cites another (reference 6: https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/1742395316644770) that gives the 25% figure, but I can't access it.

Edit: The 25% figure is quoted in the abstract, but it seems that this study might equate housebound with severe, which might not necessarily be the case.

Brilliant! Thank you!
Here's a link to the open source PDF: https://europepmc.org/backend/ptpmcrender.fcgi?accid=PMC5464362&blobtype=pdf
 
Is this worth trying to justify? Since we know that ascertainment and variation in criteria make it pretty impossible to give a prevalence accurate to better than a factor of two and grading severity is full of caveats all we can usefully say is that a substantial minority are severely affected.



From my perspective as a rheumatoid arthritis physician 'sever or very severe' doesn't seem a very useful tag anyway. We used to have four grades of disability defined largely in terms of being able to work, walk or self-care. In retrospect it would have been more use just to have figures on how many could work, walk or self care. I don't remember having any figures on percentages in each grade but for conditions like ME and RA where there are an unknown number of people wandering around with mild disease, many undiagnosed, it seems pretty hard to know. Much more use to know the absolute number of people with severe disability.

That you Jonathan. Yes, this is a useful point, however I was given a specific request from Dept of Health, so I was keen to respond to that.

We try hard to communicate the situation of people who are severely affected, noting that they can be invisible, and often can't participate in advocacy, so I suspect that it is in this context that DHSC are trying to communicate the importance of ensuring that any data collection and public engagement is inclusive of the severely affected group, and this is a shorthand way of evidencing that.
 
Is this worth trying to justify? Since we know that ascertainment and variation in criteria make it pretty impossible to give a prevalence accurate to better than a factor of two and grading severity is full of caveats all we can usefully say is that a substantial minority are severely affected.



From my perspective as a rheumatoid arthritis physician 'sever or very severe' doesn't seem a very useful tag anyway. We used to have four grades of disability defined largely in terms of being able to work, walk or self-care. In retrospect it would have been more use just to have figures on how many could work, walk or self care. I don't remember having any figures on percentages in each grade but for conditions like ME and RA where there are an unknown number of people wandering around with mild disease, many undiagnosed, it seems pretty hard to know. Much more use to know the absolute number of people with severe disability.


I think the 'overall number' is an issue to ascertain in the ME/CFS pot (I can think of all sorts of reasons, including how you define that pot), whereas the number for severe and very severe theoretically should be something a health system knows given just how ill people are with it to plan and take it seriously. There are enough that it should serve as a stark situation for the few laypersons who care also.

If they don't have this then it says a lot regarding the issues with care and coding etc? And a database/monitoring of even the most ill.

I also like the idea of shifting to grades as long as they are appropriately described/defined, again it removes misinterpretation.

It may be about CMA-style questioning the 'marketing' (can you evidence that claim) if so they have an issue due to the PR if it has been wrong. From a going-forwards perspective, whilst I get all the arguments about which way to present from various different interests when looking at a narrative of an illness and whether it is bad, I think it is best replaced with a number. For these people their solid existence being acknowledged is important and a number is far better than a % under constant debate due to issues with confirming the 'denominator group'. For marketing purposes it's a number people understand vs 25% of 'what' - and a distraction (and risk, as it could change)?
 
This 2016 study by Leonard Jason, et. al., from DePaul University, found that 25% of ME/CFS patients were confined to their homes due to "severe symptomatology."

This is similar to the ICC criteria which calls "mostly housebound" "moderate" and "mostly bedridden" (and thus presumably "confined to home") is called "severe." "Totally bedridden" (defacto "confined to home") is classified as "very severe."

Housebound versus nonhousebound patients with myalgic encephalomyelitis and chronic fatigue syndrome
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5464362/


Objectives
The objective of this study was to examine individuals with myalgic encephalomyelitis and chronic fatigue syndrome who are confined to their homes due to severe symptomatology. The existing literature fails to address differences between this group, and less severe, nonhousebound patient populations.

The present study corroborated the exploratory findings of previous literature that illustrated differences between housebound and not housebound individuals, namely that this group makes up about 25% of the total patient population and experiences a significantly more severe illness across all domains related to physical activity and functioning.


[Oops! Just noticed that @InitialConditions also linked to this paper.]
 
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Hi All,

I have just had a request from the Department of Health & Social Care policy team for a citation supporting the often cited statistic that 25% of people with ME are severely or very severely affected.

Does anyone have a supported source for this? My first round of searches (ME-paedia etc) have not shown a good source.

Thanks!

It's quoted in MEAction Factsheets e.g. https://www.meaction.net/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/MEAction-UK-Factsheet.pdf

You could ask the moderators if they are aware of members (here) who are involved in MEAction UK and they may be able to advise.

I recall this question coming up before - I'll try to find an answer.
 
Thank you all. I have sent the Department of Health & Social Care team the 'Housebound vs non-Housebound" study, which supports the statistic (even if a small study).
The DoHSC rep seemed happy with it. I believe it is part of their policy development.

We talked a lot about the need to include severely affected people, and suggested conversations via whatsapp / messenger apps, suggesting brief discussion by text over multiple days as a potential option.
 
Thank you all. I have sent the Department of Health & Social Care team the 'Housebound vs non-Housebound" study, which supports the statistic (even if a small study).
The DoHSC rep seemed happy with it. I believe it is part of their policy development.

We talked a lot about the need to include severely affected people, and suggested conversations via whatsapp / messenger apps, suggesting brief discussion by text over multiple days as a potential option.

I struggle most with texts, whatsapp better, messenger even better. if a simple yes/no Q all are fine. the lack of ease in editing and therefore the cognitive load in being succinct given word-finding (and with texts on my phone the autocorrect and scrolling to copy paste) are all factors. I think what I'm saying is I hope they at least do both of those.
 
You could ask the moderators if they are aware of members (here) who are involved in MEAction UK and they may be able to advise.
I would imagine Peter, who is part of Forward ME, has contact details for MEAction UK, who are also part of Forward ME, should he feel a need to get in touch with them, so no need for you to volunteer the energy and time of our moderation team.
 
Is there any sense of what kind of policy this is about or would affect?
I am glad someone (seemingly) cares about this, but to what end?

I don't think anything we discussed with them was confidential. Broadly speaking they were trying to listen and learn about ME.
Before starting a formal consultation process to understand what they need to do, they will do some scoping to understand the dynamics of the subject. This will help ensure that any formal consultation is inclusive of key target audiences.

We were keen to communicate the diversity of impact of ME, and to be cautious to recognise that those with 'mild ME' may be very different to those with severe and very severe ME, who will need to be engaged in a very different way.

For what it's worth, I thought the discussion was useful and that they were engaged.
 
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Another piece of evidence, I think, that the commonly used 25% estimate is wrong.
I've just remembered that I was writing a post about this a little while ago. I'm not sure why I didn't post it, and it's a bit off-topic for this thread, but -

______

It's commonly said that 25% of pwME are, at any given time, severely affected, a figure that is quoted everywhere. I've been curious about the source of this claim for a while, and suspect that it is wrong. The 25% ME Group came into existence in 2003 (link) so the estimate necessarily precedes their formation. I then checked the 2002 CMO report, which mentions the 25% figure as an estimate, but doesn't give a source.

I eventually found a paper which did, a paper by Pheby & Saffron (link to PDF) which states that:
Some 25% or more of people with ME/CFS may be severely ill (Action for ME, 2001)
The reference here is:
Action for ME, 2001. Severely Neglected. London.
This was a membership survey which is no longer on AfME's website, although I managed to obtain a copy of it. I'm not sure if they would object to my uploading it to the forum, but it was a survey that was
distributed to AfME’s 7,529 members in August 2000 of whom 2,338 responded (31%)
I don't think we have a thread on this, being a very old survey. The "severity and impact" section of the summary says -
1. 2,076 (89%) of the respondents (28% of those mailed) replied that they are or have been severely affected (i.e. either bed-ridden or house-bound).
2. Of the 2,338 respondents, 710 (30.4%) are currently severely affected.
3. 110 (4.7%) are very severely affected i.e. “bedridden – totally reliant on others for care”.
4. 957 (41%) reported having been bedridden now or in the past.
5. 1,211 (58%) experienced this level of disability for over a year and 495 (24%) were at this level for over four years.
6. 1,176 (50.3%) replied “yes” to the question “Have you ever felt suicidal as a result of your illness”.
7. Those who have had the illness worse, with the most severe pain, and who have had late diagnosis and management, are the most likely to have considered suicide.
8. 35% of respondents use a wheelchair.
9. 14% described themselves as deteriorating while 25% were improving.
10. 4 out of 5 suffered severe pain as a result of their illness. 29% reported experiencing severe pain much of the time.
Obviously a charity members' questionnaire, while potentially useful information, is not a reliable population-level estimate; it's likely to skew towards those sufficiently badly affected to seek out and join a charity, towards those who agreed with the charity's aims, against those in sufficient financial hardship to pay membership fees, and against those too ill to fill in surveys, amongst other factors. And the survey data doesn't really match '25% severe at any given time'.

I haven't been able to find copies of the members' information that AfME put out about this survey from August 2000, but it was called "Severely Neglected", so I also suspect there was some particular focus on severe patients which, if communicated to their members, could have skewed the results. Other surveys have produced markedly different results.

The survey data from DecodeME - a far larger cohort - is particularly salient. The preprint describes that, in total, 28.7% of participants were mild, 58.2% moderate, 12.4% severe, and 0.8% very severe. The picture did not differ significantly between genders, either (in females: 28.7% mild, 57.9% moderate, 12.6% severe, 0.8% very severe; in males: 28.1% mild, 59.6% moderate, 11.5% severe, 0.8% very severe).

From anecdotal clues, too, I suspect the estimate may be wrong. My old GP (one of the rare sympathetic ones, now sadly retired) told me just before he retired that I was by far the most severely affected patient he had seen in his entire career - and that was back when I would have been classed as the high end of 'moderate' according to the 2021 NICE definition. If I was the worst affected patient he saw in his entire career then he never saw someone into the NICE severe or very severe categories - and I suspect he would have seen far more pwME than most as the local support group at the time recommended him as a GP to those who enquired with them about local provision. That is not evidence but it is telling.

We really need more reliable data. In both CTV3 and SNOMED, used in NHS primary care, there are separate codes for mild, moderate & severe 'chronic fatigue syndrome'. While I suspect very few practices use the severity-specific codes, it may be possible to extrapolate at least to a limited extent from the subset that do, and there has been research conducted on large-scale primary care datasets (e.g. those using the new OpenSAFELY framework). There may be clues in HES datasets. Data linkage based estimates - comparing the number of nationwide diagnoses vs. the numbers of people claiming different types & levels of disability benefits for ME/CFS - may be possible in those countries that have central integrated databases.

In the meantime, I think that the DecodeME estimate (13.2% combined severe & very severe) should supplant the 2001 estimate being, as it is, based on an old charity membership survey.
 
Since UK doctors do not go into peoples home the severe and worse are much less likely to be diagnosed than those with moderate and mild disease especially since a lot of ME clinics that do the diagnosis all over the country don't accept severe patients. The UK diagnosed patient group has a large number of biases, less men, less minorities, less severe patients. DecodeME is based on that bias since it required a UK GP diagnosis. We thus can not use it as a reasonable estimate either as its got a lot of flaws for this purpose.

The severe and especially the very severe are just hard to reach in general. They often aren't anywhere including online so if we count them in a variety of ways they are always going to show up less in every measure as they are too sick to participate. The length of a questionaire will drastically change the amount that respond as will where its surfaced. There are so many difficult factors to getting an accurate estimate and so many biases that are easy to introduce accidentally. All measures are flawed unfortunately, DecodeME on this metric especially so.
 
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Since UK doctors do not go into peoples home the severe and worse are much less likely to be diagnosed than those with moderate and mild disease especially since a lot of ME clinics that do the diagnosis all over the country don't accept severe patients.
If you're so severe you can barely leave your home, you will inevitably end up with a diagnosis. It's practically impossible to obtain benefits, social care, etc without one. And, to be honest, there aren't many other conditions that cause the particular pattern of impairment seen in ME/CFS. Some patients may be misdiagnosed with atypical depression or FND but misdiagnosis cuts both ways.

There is little data on diagnostic (un)reliability, and no UK specific data that I'm aware of; the Johnston et al. paper from 2016 found that, of "535 patients diagnosed with CFS/ME by a primary care physician" in an Australian cohort, "30.28% met Fukuda criteria. A further 31.96% met both Fukuda criteria and International Consensus Criteria. There were 14.58% reporting chronic fatigue but did not meet criteria for CFS/ME and 23.18% were considered noncases due to exclusionary conditions". That is really quite extraordinary.
The UK diagnosed patient group has a large number of biases, less men, less minorities, less severe patients.
... which could be features of ME/CFS, not biases. Amongst other conditions e.g. autoimmune diseases range from about 3x to 9x female predominant & MS seems to be considerably more common in Northern Europe.
DecodeME is based on that bias since it required a UK GP diagnosis. We thus can not use it as a reasonable estimate either as its got a lot of flaws for this purpose as well.

The severe and especially the very severe are just hard to reach in general. They often aren't anywhere including online so if we count them in a variety of ways they are always going to show up less in every measure as they are too sick to participate. The length of a questionaire will drastically change the amount that respond as will where its surfaced. There are so many difficult factors to getting an accurate estimate and so many biases that are easy to introduce accidentally. All measures are flawed unfortunately, DecodeME on this metric especially so.
The point is that the 25% is based on a very old membership survey from a charity. It's an extremely unreliable estimate.
 
If you're so severe you can barely leave your home, you will inevitably end up with a diagnosis. It's practically impossible to obtain benefits, social care, etc without one. And, to be honest, there aren't many other conditions that cause the particular pattern of impairment seen in ME/CFS. Some patients may be misdiagnosed with atypical depression or FND but misdiagnosis cuts both ways.
Not necessarily. Being in Very Severe communities myself, many cases of long psych ward stays with “depression / health anxiety / FND” diagnoses, a non-zero amount spent years as “reclusive kid in dark room who we don’t know what’s wrong with”, and then I imagine for many especially lower class adults without close family it’s a homelessness -> death pipeline, death logged at whatever dealt the “final blow” infection or heart attack or whatever.
 
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