Should we be cooling our brains down?

So we just need to do isometric yoga in a warm bath with an ice pack on our heads.

(Sorry for being flippant, I guess until we have an understanding of the underlying mechanisms people will pick up on individual features of the disease and focus on them. However when the only treatment option is to try to manage the symptoms how do we know which features to try to ameliorate and which to endure?)
 
The idea of cooling the brain was a passing comment, not a serious suggestion, I think. It could possibly slightly reduce some symptoms if they are triggered by the overheating, but it wouldn't get to the heart of the problem causing the overheating which seems to be the microglial activation, which in turn is caused by...?
 
Andy said:
Phew, from a few comments here I thought we might have to cryogenically cool our brains to see a result, thankfully all it seems to need is an ice pack or some frozen peas used sensibly.
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That was my first, and second, thought - how to modify a computer liquid cooling setup to cool the blood, and, if direct connection is deemed idiotic, make into some form of hat ;)

I used to, when I was still reasonably active, use ice on the back of the neck to improve function, I would also, if desperate, use metal lamp posts in winter, anything that was cold that was left lying around would do, it didn't have to be ice, it didn't have to be on the neck, as long as it was cold (although cold applied to the neck was the fastest and least painful method, as that's where the concentrated heat was coming from).

Do I think it's a good idea, probably not, did it work, yes, but ice, messy stuff, as it melts all over you.
 
Trish said:
The idea of cooling the brain was a passing comment, not a serious suggestion, I think. It could possibly slightly reduce some symptoms if they are triggered by the overheating, but it wouldn't get to the heart of the problem causing the overheating which seems to be the microglial activation, which in turn is caused by...?
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Yes.

Also if you cool the skin the hypothalamus may think it needs to increase metabolism and heat the core up further - including the brain.
 
Jonathan Edwards said:
Yes.

Also if you cool the skin the hypothalamus may think it needs to increase metabolism and heat the core up further - including the brain.
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Sometimes I use an ice package on the top of my head when I feel I have a "brain fever" and am so uncomfortable I despair. But if I use it excessively I feel the symptom just increases afterwards, but it does give some immediate relief.
 
This is fascinating. If I'm out in public, I'll often end up with my excellent gel ice packs strapped to my forehead to stave off a migraine. Even when my body is cold, my head DEFINITELY heats up in response to over-use of energy. My migraines are clearly energy over-use triggered.

If I try and put an ice pack to my head or neck when I am not experiencing pain symptoms or heat, it's intolerable. I can't see how an ME patient, with our general sensitivities, would use them prophylactically for more than a couple of minutes.

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Alvin said:
Cooling the body obviously has applications but trying to cool your brain without equipment that can measure the changes is not a good idea. If someone is going to hold their head in cold water or even use ice presumably for hours or longer or repeatedly to actually have an effect and ignore the peripheral symptoms of the cold thinking they are doing something good and finding out they did real damage is not my idea of a good time.
If one lowers their core body temperature accidentally they can end up with hypothermia. The blood will be constantly flowing and to cool the brain you probably also have to cool it even if indirectly. Its not something i would pursue.
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In chemotherapy they use what are known as "Polar Cold Caps" which keeps the head cool while the patient is having their chemotherapy infusion. The caps help to stop the hair loss that is normal during chemo.
 
TigerLilea said:
In chemotherapy they use what are known as "Polar Cold Caps" which keeps the head cool while the patient is having their chemotherapy infusion. The caps help to stop the hair loss that is normal during chemo.
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Are they designed to cool the center of the brain or just the location of the hair?
If an ice pack to the head would treat ME i think someone would have noticed by now.
 
Does anyone get veins that can be seen beating around the temple area,I wondered if this is due to overheating
 
When I was young, people might wear an ice bag designed for the purpose on the tops of their heads when they had a fever. You would just put in three or four ice cubes, just enough for one layer on the bottom of the double-layered bag. It would flatten out on the bottom so that it would stay up there, unless you really tipped your head. A funny show for kids in those early days of television was called either The Little Rascals or later just Our Gang. The boy named Alfalfa would be the one typically with the ice bag on his head to cool a fever. He was the kid who could cross his eyes, so it was funnier to make him the one wearing the ice bag. Maybe someone can dig up a picture or I will look.

In any case, if it helps someone feel better and the ice bag/cooling hat isn’t on too long, why not try it? However, I wouldn’t expect much remediation of symptoms because the microglia would continue to be activated and in a state of neuroinflammation, with most of those consequences, don’t you think? I mean, if you had an infected arm and you cooled it down a bit, it would still be infected though it would probably feel better. That is my thinking anyway.
 
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Not suggesting this is actually useful in cooling the brain, only that it seems to be helpful sometimes:
In summer, when I find it difficult to communicate (crashing, brain fog coming in), I have tried going to bed with a hot water bottle or two and a cube of ice in my mouth (to roll around the roof of my mouth - without freezing anything). A cold drink of water to swish around in the mouth as well can be good. It really helps, quite rapidly. But I have no idea what I’m doing to anything and if it’s just a huge distraction for my system.
Reminds me of the phrase “brain freeze” people use for when eating an ice cream too fast but I do have to keep the rest of my body very warm.
 
Subtropical Island said:
Not suggesting this is actually useful in cooling the brain, only that it seems to be helpful sometimes:
In summer, when I find it difficult to communicate (crashing, brain fog coming in), I have tried going to bed with a hot water bottle or two and a cube of ice in my mouth (to roll around the roof of my mouth - without freezing anything). A cold drink of water to swish around in the mouth as well can be good. It really helps, quite rapidly. But I have no idea what I’m doing to anything and if it’s just a huge distraction for my system.
Reminds me of the phrase “brain freeze” people use for when eating an ice cream too fast but I do have to keep the rest of my body very warm.
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That is interesting. Though most of my body is usually cooler than other peoples, if not outright cold, I like ice water too and find it makes me feel better. Of course I like hot coffee a lot too!
 
Given that the areas of the brain that have a slightly higher temperature are relatively small parts deep inside the brain, and the rest of the brain has a normal temperature, it seems to me pointless to speculate about the effect of a bit of ice on the outside of the head. I can't see how it would make any difference to those specific brain regions.

Cooling the outside of the head when you have a headache is a separate question. I find a cold wet flannel on the painful side of my forehead when I have a migraine seems to help, but that's about what's happening on the outside of my skull and the sensory nerves there, nothing to do with the inside of the brain which as far as I know doesn't have sensory nerves.
 
Tennis players use cool ice packs in the neck during hot weather (like at the US open this year). Maybe this got to do with cooling the head/brain (-> heat stroke?).
 
If the reason is actually to cool the brain I would suggest, whilst only having my own experience to draw from, that an ice pack on the head would be less effective than cooling the blood supply that actually enters the brain. An ice pack on the head would seem to mainly cool the skin, as the skin, muscles, skull and a significant amount of fluid is between the brain and the top of the head. Without being a medical type person I have no idea if the blood on the outside of skull actually enters the brain, it would seem poor 'design' if it did directly in significant quantities, as a small cut on the head could, in that case, empty the brain ;)

An ice pack on the neck over the main blood vessels entering the brain would have the possibility of cooling the blood entering the brain, a bit, so would be my prefered option if trying to cool down the brain.

I should point out that whilst I used ice on my neck it was not over these blood vessels, it was over the base of the skull and the portion of the neck adjacent - where the spine hits the skull and a few inches down, as this is the area that was overheating/hot. The effect was short lived (i.e. if the ice was taken away/melted then within a few minutes I would need it back).

It was never my intention, or aim, to cool the blood to my brain, it was my intention to cool down a hot bit, as doing so made me feel better, but I suspect if cooling the brain was your aim, it would be a better approach.

I have absolutely no idea what good putting an ice pack on someone's head is supposed to do re; cooling the brain, and it hurts, but if it works for you then carry on.

ETA - having given it a few minutes further thought it occurs that an ice pack on the head would, if continued long enough, cool the blood, just not brain specific. This is why people used to wear hats in a cold environment, a lot of body heat can be lost through the head if it's cold enough, but I would question if this could significantly affect brain temperature until the heat loss was serious (i.e. the blood would need to be cool enough to affect other organs, the brain may be, after all, a 'protected' organ, possibly capable of generating significant amounts of heat independently, at least so the number of calories it can burn would suggest.
 
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TigerLilea said:
In chemotherapy they use what are known as "Polar Cold Caps" which keeps the head cool while the patient is having their chemotherapy infusion. The caps help to stop the hair loss that is normal during chemo.
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Oh wow. Didn't think of that. I always felt totally awful after wearing the cold cap but I was having chemo at the same time so any advantages would not have been noticed.

I found the cap very cold and there was ice on my head after it came off. My hair was wet before I put the cap on.
 
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