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RoB 2: a revised tool for assessing risk of bias in randomised trials (2019) Sterne et al.

Discussion in 'Research methodology news and research' started by ME/CFS Skeptic, Aug 29, 2019.

  1. dave30th

    dave30th Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    This is certainly true, given that the PACE authors acknowledged a significant mistake in the Lancet correspondence about how they characterized the population of a database they used to developed their bogus "normal range." The point has never been corrected in The Lancet, and Dr Horton has ignored the request to do so.
     
    MEMarge, rvallee, Sly Saint and 8 others like this.
  2. Lucibee

    Lucibee Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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  3. MSEsperanza

    MSEsperanza Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Webinar: RoB 2 Domain 3: Bias due to missing outcome data

    Presented by Higgins and Sterne.

    https://training.cochrane.org/rob-2-domain-3-bias-due-missing-outcome-data
     
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2020
    rvallee and Snow Leopard like this.
  4. Sly Saint

    Sly Saint Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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  5. Caroline Struthers

    Caroline Struthers Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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  6. Caroline Struthers

    Caroline Struthers Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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  7. Caroline Struthers

    Caroline Struthers Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Mithriel, Amw66, Sly Saint and 3 others like this.
  8. MSEsperanza

    MSEsperanza Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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  9. Snowdrop

    Snowdrop Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Interesting that Lisa Bero chooses to interpret CoI that way.

    I'm pretty sure that this special interpretation differs from CoI guidelines in business and law for example.
     
  10. Jonathan Edwards

    Jonathan Edwards Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Yes, I looked up a while back and it certainly does not have to be financial.
     
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  11. Caroline Struthers

    Caroline Struthers Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Bero says...."Focusing on interests such as personal beliefs, experience, or intellectual commitments can divert attention from financial conflicts of interest, which have the potential for widespread influence. The result is an erosion of the evidence base and confidence in science, making it vulnerable to competing groups’ claims [12], as we are seeing with issues as diverse as childhood vaccination and climate change."

    Oh dear, well we'd better stop diverting attention then. Selfishly causing the erosion of trust in the nice people of Cochrane and the crappy data from crappy studies they polish up and put in their reviews.
     
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  12. Jonathan Edwards

    Jonathan Edwards Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    But those are not interests in the sense that is relevant. An interest is some potential benefit that may accrue, not a belief or experience. Nobody is focusing on those. This resounds with rationalisation with deliberate confusion of term usage. Again, the message in the background is that big Pharma is bad but equally biased thinking of a touchy feely primary care sort is always good.
     
    FMMM1, Sean, Snow Leopard and 4 others like this.
  13. Caroline Struthers

    Caroline Struthers Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    yes, you're right. She doesn't mention researcher allegiance at all. Which is relevant.

    https://www.nationalelfservice.net/...ce-the-achilles-heel-of-psychotherapy-trials/
    https://bmjopen.bmj.com/content/5/6/e007206
     
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  14. Snowdrop

    Snowdrop Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    I see that as an example of some really poor quality reasoning. Turning a reasoned thoughtful consideration of what is a conflict into a polemic of competing opinion is unhelpful. Again and again, I see this unhelpful attitude of it's all so complicated let's simplify it all. (An example within this group but on a different topic would be the ubiquitous fatigue -- let's not tease out differences let's turn everything into generic fatigue)

    Yes, thinking can be hard work. Good thing they get paid to do it. So no excuses then.
     
  15. Sean

    Sean Moderator Staff Member

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    Protecting one's ego is at least as powerful a motivation as protecting one's income, empire, etc. To admit you were seriously wrong, even reckless and callous, and caused terrible harm on a massive scale, is too great a psychological and moral hurdle for most to face.

    Most of the guilty in the ME debacle are never going to admit any significant wrongdoing. They will go to their graves denying it all, and blaming patient 'activists' for their failure.

    Don't wait around for genuine apologies from the likes of Wessely, the PACE crew, Vogt, Shorter, etc. Will never happen.
     
    Mike Dean, Simbindi, rvallee and 3 others like this.
  16. MSEsperanza

    MSEsperanza Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    2020 Bias Methods Group Open Meeting October 27 & 29

    https://methods.cochrane.org/bias/news/2020-bias-methods-group-open-meeting

     
  17. ME/CFS Skeptic

    ME/CFS Skeptic Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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  18. Sly Saint

    Sly Saint Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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  19. Barry

    Barry Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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  20. rvallee

    rvallee Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    The bigger question is how is it that this is common practice?

    Wait, I know, it's because it is common practice, in the sense that people commonly do this. None of this is accidental, it's built-in to EBM, an alternative to the scientific method. How people expect that using a lesser methodology would yield good results is a real puzzle. No one ever checks these things.

    That's easy to fix. Except the problem is people, that people are using this method to make their job easy, don't even to bother doing any real work. In hindsight this is bad but that was obvious from the start.

    In computer science we respect GIGO. Why medicine can't do this I don't understand but if we can do this, they sure can, they just choose not to.
     

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