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Relinquishing Control in Health Care | Dr Laura Marshall-Andrews & Chris Dance | TEDxBrighton

Discussion in 'Health News and Research unrelated to ME/CFS' started by Skycloud, Mar 11, 2018.

  1. Skycloud

    Skycloud Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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  2. Skycloud

    Skycloud Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    This was sent to me by someone who is a patient at this GP surgery in Brighton, UK. They are chronically ill and significantly disabled with complex health needs which are not all met satisfactorily by conventional medicine.

    They are extremely grateful for the combination of conventional and alternative healthcare they receive at this surgery, and they are helped by both. Their opinion is tat this GP is a very good one. As far as I recall (not sure) the therapies they have received there are acupuncture and massage for pain.

    I thought others might find this interesting.

    edit - removed some detail
     
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2018
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  3. Jonathan Edwards

    Jonathan Edwards Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    I am sorry to have to say it but this is just two people on an awful do-good ego trip - look at the outfit she is wearing for a start. If people want to be quacks and others want to visit them that may be OK but I cannot see why we should pay for this when people are dying in A/E because it takes too long to get to see them.

    The rubbish she spouts about the balance of evidence is just lazy rationalisation.

    I understand that massage and acupuncture can be comforting but these are not effective treatments for anything.

    They say they are the only centre like this. Hopefully someone in the NHS will notice that this is outside any reasonably policy and close it down and there will not be any more!
     
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  4. Valentijn

    Valentijn Not a moderator

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    This is the sort of fluff I hate seeing applied to ME, and I doubt it's much better in a general medical context.

    This seems to be intended as psychotherapy:

    What sort of "wellbeing"? Where's the evidence for it?

    Again, they're suggesting an impact on physical health without any proof:

    Oh look, you can boost your immune system by writing! And in case you're wondering, the link to the supposed sources is broken:

    And the magical powers of singing, again with a broken link to the source:
    I'm getting the impression that people who thought it would be a lot of fun to get a performing arts degree have been unable to find work in the field. So now they're desperately spewing bullshit in an effort to convince the NHS (or anyone else) that they should give them money.
     
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  5. Skycloud

    Skycloud Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    I was very surprised to learn that there was a GP practice like this (I was less surprised that it’s in Brighton). How do they get NHS funding for this? (rhetorical q)

    I can’t see that they are able to justify this with evidence of improvement in anyone’s medical condition, beyond subjective report from patients of, for example, feeling less pain, when pain is subjective reported anyway.

    They seem to me to be responding to emotional and mental suffering. It actually reminds me in some respects of the way varied alternative therapies, talking therapies and other activities are offered in hospices. They do no good medically whatsoever, but are offered to help with emotional and mental wellbeing. I don’t know if they do help in that way, but suspect many people who experience them say they do, much as the person who sent me this TED talk says they have been helped with their intractable pain.


    I understand that only some patients are referred for these therapies on the NHS and suspect they are often the ones that can’t be helped much medically. It's certainly true of the person who sent me this. Potential heart-sink patients, I suppose. Is this any more expensive than sending those people off for talking therapies? Does it reduce these patients use of more expensive GP time? I shouldn’t think they are trying to discover any of that.

    I'd lump it in with MUS centres, which some people will be very grateful for, and some people will report as being helpful, and which the NHS seems very intent on giving us all the benefit of.

    I'll just add that this GP is thorough medically with the person who sent me this, and they're also under good specialist care, I've no reason doubt that. (Whatever conclusions one may draw about the rest of it.)

    edit - change to last paragraph

    eta - I could ask the patient for more info about how this operates but can't be bothered unless anyone wants the info.

    eta - I didn't mean to imply the NHS are intent on giving us GP practices like this, which is how what I wrote could be read... I think :banghead::asleep:
     
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2018
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  6. Jan

    Jan Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    I'd love to be able to access acupuncture and massage on the NHS. It would be a thousand times better than cbt or get! If they can't treat us, why not do something to help us live with it, it might reduce the use of pain meds a little, which can only be a good thing.
     
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  7. Valentijn

    Valentijn Not a moderator

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    Yeah, that wouldn't be too bad. Unfortunately the NHS doesn't seem interested in providing that unless it comes with a side of BS or psychotherapy :p
     
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  8. Awol

    Awol Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Acupuncture has been available on the NHS for several years.
    I guess it may depend on area, but may be worth asking your GP about it if you haven't already?

    I also found gentle massage by a qualified physiotherapist very soothing of my neck, shoulder, upper back pain, in private sessions while waiting to be seen by NHS Physiotherapy. This was all before the NICE guideline and set up of the NHS fatigue clinics.
     
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2018
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  9. Skycloud

    Skycloud Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    I'm not sure about acupuncture; there are energy channels flowing through the body?! I'm aware there's been some research but I've never looked into it.

    I have tried it a few times because an easy opportunity presented itself and my husband was keen for me to try. I was curious to know what it felt like. I can't say that it helped my pain or anything else and seeing the practitioner was fatiguing.

    Interesting weird sensations though.
     
  10. Awol

    Awol Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    I tried acupuncture in one of the last ditch attempts to improve, partly as it was suggested to me in the NHS rheumatology department for trying to help relieve muscle pain, and partly because a trusted friend recommended an experienced practitioner; but I only managed two or three sessions before crashing to a bedbound state (not suggesting that was because of the acupuncture) and never bothered to follow it up.
     

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