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RAS and Bradykinin: Where COVID-19 and ME/CFS Meet?

Discussion in 'ME/CFS research news' started by ScottTriGuy, Sep 2, 2020.

  1. ScottTriGuy

    ScottTriGuy Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Hutan, Webdog, merylg and 2 others like this.
  2. Webdog

    Webdog Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    I had just read the same article, and was wondering that as well.
     
  3. rvallee

    rvallee Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    I know very little about biology but...
    Yes, quite. It's one thing to speak of multi-system diseases but some systems are kind of their own while affecting every other system.

    Anyway no point in speculating but it's usually helpful when a hypothesis actually, you know, fits with the evidence.
     
    ScottTriGuy likes this.
  4. Snow Leopard

    Snow Leopard Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    No direct relevance to ME in my opinion.

    The hypothesis isn't really that "new", I remember it being proposed on Twitter back in March and hypotheses published in April and May:
    https://www.bmj.com/content/368/bmj.m810/rr-35 (March comment)
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7267506/
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/pmid/32338605/


    I think it is misleading to talk about "cytokine storms" and "bradykinin storms". The word "storm" in particular is misleading - "storm" implies off the chart levels due to aberrant feedback. Bradykinin certainly plays a role in the pathology, but there is a lack of evidence (and it is unlikely) for off-the chart levels and it's also possible that it is a beneficial response to ACE2 antagonism by viral related activity.

    A large increase in bradykinin would lead to symptoms of angioedema in the absence of Urticaria. There have been a few case reports of this occuring in COVID19 patients, but as far as I know, none of them reported the patient dying... One case study of hereditary angioedema did not find an exacerbation during a "mild" course of COVID19.

    Bradykinin may actually be beneficial in helping clear the immune complexes. Bradykinin helps increase blood flow through vasodilation, particularly microvascular flow (which is less effected by autonomic control).
    Thus I could construct a similarly evidenced (but speculative) hypothesis explaining why bradykinin could be helpful. This is the danger of confirmation bias...

    The mention of hyaluronic acid as some kind of danger can be misleading too, hyaluronic acid is a key component of the extracellular matrix and plays a role in wound healing / tissue regeneration.
     
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  5. Ereboss

    Ereboss New Member

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    For the unifying hypothesis of the pathophysiology of Myalgic Encephalomyelitis/Chronic Fatigue Syndrome (ME/CFS) by Klaus Wirth & Prof. Carmen Scheibenbogen, Bradykinin seems to play a potentially relevant role:

    https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1568997220300823
     
    hinterland, Michelle and ScottTriGuy like this.
  6. Hoopoe

    Hoopoe Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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  7. beverlyhills

    beverlyhills Established Member (Voting Rights)

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