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Perrin Technique

Discussion in 'Alternative Therapies' started by Sly Saint, Feb 21, 2019.

  1. Sly Saint

    Sly Saint Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    University College of Osteopathy - Raymond Perrin Nov 2019

    Chronic Fatigue Syndrome/ME & Fibromyalgia

    Dates: 23 - 24 November 2019
    Course leader: Dr Raymond Perrin
    Cost: £256 - £320


    "
    The evidence to support the physical diagnostic criteria

    A summary of the findings of the clinical trials into the treatment at the Universities of Salford and Manchester together with results of an independent controlled clinical study in Hammersmith Hospital London plus a detailed review of the findings from the diagnostic study published recently in the BMJ Open (Hives L et al. Nov 2017)".


    The paper in the BMJ https://bmjopen.bmj.com/content/bmjopen/7/11/e017521.full.pdf
    is solely about diagnosis
    "
    Objective To assess five physical signs to see whether
    they can assist in the screening of patients with chronic
    fatigue syndrome/myalgic encephalomyelitis (CFS/ME)"

    https://www.uco.ac.uk/courses/chronic-fatigue-syndromeme-fibromyalgia-0

    As far as I know there have not been any clinical trials into the treatment (or at least nothing published). ? Anyone know about these trials mentioned?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 11, 2020
  2. MeSci

    MeSci Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Cornwall, UK
    Merged thread

    "On completion of this two day course delegates are qualified to register as a licenced 'Perrin Technique' practitioner at a discounted price of £20 per month or £200 for the first year of registration (reverting to the regular price of £25 per month or £250 per year there after). This gives you the right to list the Perrin Technique on your own website and will list you as a licenced practitioner on the Perrin Technique website."

    ?!
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 5, 2019
    Hipsman, JaneL, ladycatlover and 6 others like this.
  3. Trish

    Trish Moderator Staff Member

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    He's still only citing his small study of his diagnostic technique as evidence, yet he's saying the treatment is evidence based.
     
  4. NelliePledge

    NelliePledge Moderator Staff Member

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    UK West Midlands
    One for @PhysiosforME to be aware of? Maybe you could ask him some questions about his claims for evidence for his treatment - see @Trish post above
     
  5. PhysiosforME

    PhysiosforME Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Thank you again for tagging us - we will get on the case and report back!
     
    MEMarge, JaneL, Annamaria and 5 others like this.
  6. PhysiosforME

    PhysiosforME Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    We've done some investigation and as @Trish higlighted above, the only published information we can find relates to the diagnostic study. And his book. We will try and make contact with him and see if we can find out any more.

    We have however had some positive feedback from people saying it has helped so would be interested to hear from anyone who has tried it to find out more about their experiences.
     
  7. Trish

    Trish Moderator Staff Member

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    As I'm sure you are well aware, any quack therapy will have its devotees, some of whom will make it their mission to tell the world how much the therapy helped, so I'd take those stories with a large pinch of salt. Unless Perrin can provide you with a published clinical trial with objective outcome measures and long term follow up with a decent sized cohort, he has no business claiming his treatment works.

    Sorry, I'm sure you know all that already - just letting off steam!
     
  8. NelliePledge

    NelliePledge Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
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    Location:
    UK West Midlands
    Ive tried it not long after I was diagnosed. i get swollen glands as part of flare ups so thought it possibly would be relevant to me. But I couldn’t tolerate the massage it made me sore.
     
  9. Sly Saint

    Sly Saint Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    I have a copy of his book; would suggest that, if you haven't already, you read it particularly regarding his 'theory' of what causes ME which has, as far as I know, no research/evidence to support it.

    As Trish said, like the LP, it has its 'followers', but similarly it is becoming a bit of a pyramid scheme and misleading patients into believing it is based on scientific research based on one small and badly designed RCT on diagnosis of patients with ME (if you have read the research, from memory, they only had HC and pwME to diagnose, so there was a 50/50 chance of 'getting it right').
     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2019
  10. Sly Saint

    Sly Saint Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Last edited: Sep 12, 2019
  11. Sly Saint

    Sly Saint Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
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    InfiniteRubix and Trish like this.
  12. Sly Saint

    Sly Saint Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Just found this charity called FORME
    Fund for Osteopathic Research into M.E.

    which seems to be mainly set up to fund Raymond Perrins 'research'.

    http://www.forme-cfs.org.uk/latest-research/

    there is someone who has a son with ME
    who is doing regular fundraising for them.
    https://uk.virginmoneygiving.com/fu...ndraiserPage?userUrl=NIGELBROOKWELL&pageUrl=4

    I don't get it. Is he not aware of all the other real research going on(?)
     
  13. Dolphin

    Dolphin Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    3,154
    Merged thread

    Into the looking glass: Post-viral syndrome post COVID-19, 2020, Perrin et al


    Free full text: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7320866

    https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0306987720318260?via=ihub

    Medical Hypotheses
    Volume 144, November 2020, 110055
    [​IMG]
    Letter to Editors
    Into the looking glass: Post-viral syndrome post COVID-19

    RayPerrin
    LisaRiste
    MarkHann

    The School of Medicine and Manchester Academic Health Sciences Centre, Manchester University, UK
    Author links open overlay panelAndreasWalther
    The University of Zurich, Zurich, Switzerland
    Author links open overlay panelAnniceMukherjee
    The School of Medicine and Manchester Academic Health Sciences Centre, Manchester University, UK
    Author links open overlay panelAdrianHeald
    The School of Medicine and Manchester Academic Health Sciences Centre, Manchester University, UK
    Department of Endocrinology and Diabetes, Salford Royal Hospital, Salford, UK
    Received 17 June 2020, Accepted 26 June 2020, Available online 27 June 2020.


    https://doi.org/10.1016/j.mehy.2020.110055
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 11, 2020
  14. Andy

    Andy Committee Member (& Outreach when energy allows)

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    A lot of it is an info-mercial by Perrin et al for the Perrin technique as a treatment for post-Covid symptoms - what a surprise...
     
  15. Trish

    Trish Moderator Staff Member

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    So on the basis of treating one patient over a few weeks starting a month after infection and who improved on some subjective measures and probably would have improved anyway, he manages to get this advertisement published by medical hypotheses journal.
    The alt med forces are circling around post covid already, preparing to cash in.
     
  16. InitialConditions

    InitialConditions Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    I saw this last night. I find the whole thing quite strange. It is like an advertisement, but it's in an obscure journal that very few potential patients will ever see. A couple of things stood out:

    (i) There is no such place as 'Manchester University'. It's the University of Manchester.
    (ii) More importantly, Raymond Perrin does not, as far as I'm aware, hold an appointment at the University of Manchester, so his affiliation is either wrong or fraudulent.
    (iii) Why so many co-authors on what is essentially an annecdote from his clinic?
    (iv) There is no statement that the patient actually tested positive for Covid19.

    EDIT:
    (v) If he was Covid-positive, why was he being treated in a private clinic* in May?

    * I assume this man was treated at one of Perrin's clinics in North Manchester.

    Bizzare.
     
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2020
  17. Sly Saint

    Sly Saint Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Very old video has been posted on Youtube by a Perrin Technique practitioner.

    (https://www.robinkiashek.co.uk/ Robin is London Osteopath and Naturopath with clinics in Central London, Soho and North London, registered with both The General Osteopathic Council and The British Naturopathic Association)

    Code:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9lPZ9d0rsfM
     
    InitialConditions likes this.
  18. Leila

    Leila Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    I've tried it on myself in 2015/16 with the steps that are described in the book using a dry brush (the ones on a stick).

    It didnt do anything for me but, of course, it could be I did it all wrong.

    I must say, his explanations did make sense but dont they all until they are never backed up by studies.
     
    Helene, JemPD, MEMarge and 1 other person like this.
  19. InitialConditions

    InitialConditions Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    The owner of this channel has just copied a video that was already on YouTube, and which I've watched before:
     
    Hutan likes this.

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