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Nasobiotex L. Sakei Probiotic Powder for sinus microbiome - anyone tried it?

Discussion in 'Treating the Microbiome' started by Webdog, Dec 8, 2017.

  1. TigerLilea

    TigerLilea Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    My sinuses felt so much better once I did the rinse this morning with plain saline water. The Bactoferm water was burning the sinuses. I've never been able to use my pot too often as I end up with ear ache after using several days in a row.
     
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  2. TigerLilea

    TigerLilea Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    That's what I'm thinking, also. Lacto-Bacto recommend just once a day.
     
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  3. TigerLilea

    TigerLilea Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    This is from the Lacto-Bacto website:

     
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  4. Allele

    Allele Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    I have found when using a neti pot it is important to go to great lengths to flush all the water out afterwards, especially if you are doing the deeper version where you pull it down the back of the throat.

    But you have to be able to bend w/ the head upside down and use a fair amount of breath, which isn't really a thing for us :(
    You can do it from sitting but the head going up and down and the staccato breathing isn't nice for OI/PEM issues.

    In the days before illness when I was regularly neti-potting, I would flush by exhaling vigorously through the nose repeatedly into tissues from standing upright, bend at the waist w head pointed down and then exhale repeatedly into more tissues while upside down, then stand upright again and blow, and so on, repeating until no more water. (Each time it seems like there's no more water, but then you change positions and more gushes out.)

    I would do this blowing with both nostrils, then alternating one at a time, etc until no more water. You can tilt the head to each side while upside down too. It's incredible how much more comes out when you go from upside down to upright and vise versa.

    Anyhow, there's my little spontaneous essay on how to avoid earaches and other problems if you're fit enough to do it. :confused:
    I reallly cannot do this any more, so I rarely use the neti pot now. On the rare occasions I do, I at least do a round or two from sitting to make sure there's not a ton of water left in the sinuses.

    And p.s. TigerLilea, do you use just water and bactoferm in the neti pot? I mean, I don't know if salt water is bad for the little guys, but flushing with regular unsalted water is itself really ouchy!
     
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  5. dannybex

    dannybex Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    If it appears around a certain time of year it may be related to some allergen or allergens. Perhaps not the outdoor ones, but indoors like dust, dust mites, etc. If you have to keep your windows closed more because of cold weather that might be the case.

    I tend to agree w/@Allele -- that maybe the increased inflammation/stuffiness could be due to toxins released (perhaps a herxheimer thing), which in addition to what she said, may also include a histamine-type reaction. Ironically, the amino acid l-histidine, which many link with histamine problems, helps me when my sinuses get too "inflamed" or blocked up. This paper is ancient (or at least older than I am), but talks about the benefits of histidine for allergies. A google search will turn up more uses of histidine when it comes to food intolerances.

    Also, in my case, I'm assuming (besides the dust mite component) that my infection is fungal, mainly because antibiotics 3+ years ago were of no help, and because even the mossy ol' Mayo Clinic found that an overwhelming majority of chronic sinusitis was caused by fungal infections.

    http://www.mayoclinicproceedings.org/article/S0025-6196(11)64808-8/abstract
     
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  6. TigerLilea

    TigerLilea Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    I was trying not to flush out all of the water as I wanted to keep as much of the probiotic in my sinuses as possible. Also I was careful not to get it down my throat as it contains trace amounts of manganese sulfate monohydrate.

    I didn't add salt to the water as I read that salt acts as an antibacterial and could possibly kill off the l. sakei so I didn't want to take any chances. That could be part of the reason my sinuses hurt so bad as I don't get pain when using saline. However, I do think that the Bacto contributed to it as I felt much better after I did the saline rinse this morning.
     
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  7. TigerLilea

    TigerLilea Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    A doctor I saw at a walk-in clinic a few years ago feels pretty sure that it is allergies that are causing my sinus issues. I think it is probably food related but I've yet to figure out to what. I keep my windows open year round so I don't think it is dust or mites that are the issue. As one doctor said to me it has to be something that I do or am around only certain times of the year.

    This research from the Mayo goes back 18 years and I believe that they have now decided that fungus isn't the issue after all.
     
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  8. dannybex

    dannybex Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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  9. oldtimer

    oldtimer Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    I've had a dry feeling high up in my nose for years, sometimes to the point of stinging pain. At the same time there was what I assume was a reaction to the irritation: a runny nose that didn't help the dryness. I just blamed it on possible sjogren's syndrome. Saline spray worked better than anything but it wasn't until I had a CT scan in preparation for a dental implant that the reason became clear. My sinuses are full of polyps:alien:. With everything else going on it's a relatively minor inconvenience so I'm learning to love my polyps - for now:yuck:
     
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2018
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  10. dannybex

    dannybex Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    There's a possible connection between salicylate intolerance and nasal polyps. I have a few polyps and a possible salicylate intolerance -- at least to certain high-sal foods. Here's an overview:

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2696737/

    "Rhinitis, asthma and nasal polyposis are typical presentations..."

    And an anecdotal report here:

    http://www.foodsmatter.com/allergy_intolerance/salicylate/articles/nasal-polyps-01-15.html
     
  11. oldtimer

    oldtimer Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Thanks very much dannybex. I can't read it just now but can't wait to see what it's about:)
     
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2018
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  12. perchance dreamer

    perchance dreamer Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    @Rosie, I couldn't live without irrigating my sinuses, but I know what you mean about needing to get the water out when you finish. I get the water out afterward by leaning against the bathroom counter and leaning down as if I'm going to touch my toes. I bend my knees so I don't put pressure on my back. Quite a bit of water comes out with my head in this position and when I slowly bring my head back up.

    After that, I lie in my zero gravity recliner. When I"m all the way reclined in this chair, the rest of the water comes out after a few minutes. If you don't have a recliner, you could try lying with your head a bit elevated.
     
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  13. perchance dreamer

    perchance dreamer Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    I always get cultured before my ENT prescribes treatment. My last culture showed both bacteria and fungus.
     
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  14. perchance dreamer

    perchance dreamer Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    @Webdog, I'm going to try this probiotic. I'll try snorting it first since it works for you, or maybe start off with the Q-tip, as the doctor in the video does. I must say I thought the 80s would be the last time I snorted powder in my nose! Thanks for detailing all this.
     
  15. TigerLilea

    TigerLilea Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    When I asked about getting my sinuses cultured, the ENT told me that the only way to do it was in the OR under anesthesia. :banghead:
     
  16. TigerLilea

    TigerLilea Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    @Webdog After thinking about this the past few days, I'm now wondering if possibly you are using too much and too often. Ken Lassesen (CFS Remission) recommends changing probiotics each week. And Lacto-Bacto recommends stopping after four days and going a few days without the probiotics to see if there is any improvement.

    You run the risk of having the l. sakei taking over and decreasing the other good bacteria in your sinuses. You don't want to interfere with the symbiosis of your microbiome.
     
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  17. perchance dreamer

    perchance dreamer Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    I just get mine cultured at the ENT's office. It's uncomfortable, but quick. It's odd your ENT would tell you that.
     
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  18. Webdog

    Webdog Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    I agree with you. Just like the video, once I finished the packet after a month, I stopped. I've been off the L. Sakei for a week now.

    I did reorder another L. Sakei packet to have some on hand, as the manufacturer says it can be stored in the freezer up to 5 months.

    After stopping the L. Sakei, I started up a different nasal probiotic (taken orally) with multiple strains to fill in any reduced microbiome. This probiotic contains "N-Acetyl-Cysteine (NAC), Bifidobacterium bifidum Lactobacillus acidophilus Lactobacillus rhamnosus Streptococcus thermophilus".

    So my sinus experiment continues.

    My sinuses continue much improved, however I'm still sleeping a lot more than usual and am more housebound than usual.
     
  19. TigerLilea

    TigerLilea Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    I'm sleeping much more than usual right now but that is due to a virus that is going around. At first I wasn't sure if it was the Bactoferm or not, but so many people around me have the same thing so I'm pretty sure it's the virus causing me to be extra fatigued and sleeping long hours at night.
     
  20. Rosie

    Rosie Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    @perchance dreamer . Thanks.

    I had lots of problems with retention in my sinuses in my severe years. I had to go on antibiotics for six months straight because my sinuses were exhausted and pretty much non functioning.

    I also have to be careful how I turn my head and how I extend it. I made myself violently sick in my first year of severe ME after tilting my head over the side of the bed. I had read in a book that this helps but I think I threw my head back too fast and I was very sick a minute later.

    I should try the neti pot again but will try it when my sinuses are more settled because I feel so much worse when they don't drain properly.
     

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