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Nasobiotex L. Sakei Probiotic Powder for sinus microbiome - anyone tried it?

Discussion in 'Treating the Microbiome' started by Webdog, Dec 8, 2017.

  1. Webdog

    Webdog Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    I noticed Amazon has a new product, "Pure L. Sakei Probiotic Powder 10 Billion+ CFU/gm" by Apothex Nasobiotex.

    [​IMG]

    Has anyone tried it?

    I've just placed an order, and will be trying it out to see if it helps my chronic sinusitis better than daily sinus rinses and nasal sprays (which do help significantly, but are not as effective as they used to be).

    According to the manufacturer, this can be stored in the freezer for up to 5 months. It is only available for shipping in the USA.

    Link to the product: http://a.co/669XcFK
     
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  2. TigerLilea

    TigerLilea Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Crap. This is what I have been looking for but it doesn't ship to Canada. :emoji_disappointed:
     
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  3. Graham

    Graham Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Make sure you tell us how you get on. There's a whole family here that would be interested.
     
  4. Webdog

    Webdog Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    So far I've noticed a considerable improvement in my sinus congestion, and can sleep at night without sinus rinses for the first time in a decade.

    However, a number of products have been beneficial short term (zinc comes to mind), only to stop working after a couple weeks. I need something long term.

    If it's still working in a couple weeks, then I'll be more convinced of its efficacy.
     
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  5. dannybex

    dannybex Established Member (Voting Rights)

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    It's my understanding that it has to be taken regularly in order to be effective. Not sure if that means daily, but it's found in healthy sinus passages, and I would guess that if your nose starts running more than usual or you sneeze a few times, that may reduce the number of bacteria and might need to be replaced.

    Another strain that helps a lot with dust-related allergies is l. plantarum:

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1906181/
     
  6. dannybex

    dannybex Established Member (Voting Rights)

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    This is one that's also recommended and used by several from the lacto-bacto site. It's sold for making sausages(!), but contains the same l. sakei (along with another strain).

     
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  7. Webdog

    Webdog Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Just to clarify, this is a brand new product which only contains L. Sakei and not the other strain. This isn't the sausage product.

    I wouldn't recommend the sausage product for sinus issues. But do your own research first.
     
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  8. TigerLilea

    TigerLilea Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Thanks, Danny. Unfortunately it doesn't ship to Canada. Anything that needs cold storage they won't ship because of having to go through customs. It can sit in customs for several days and won't be any good by the time the shipment is received. :(
     
  9. TigerLilea

    TigerLilea Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Yeah! I found a company in Canada that sells this. I've placed an order, but now I have to wait and see if they will ship to western Canada. Fingers crossed!!!! :nailbiting:
     
  10. Webdog

    Webdog Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Excellent news. Keep us posted. :thumbup:
     
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  11. dannybex

    dannybex Established Member (Voting Rights)

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    I would probably try the other one first, but before that came out, quite a few people were using the Bactoferm on the lacto-bacto site, apparently with success. I hesitated not only because of zilcho $$ in the cookie jar, but because yeah...it just seemed like I might start making my own nasal sausages.

    I know, not a good image to leave you with. Sorry. :)
     
  12. TigerLilea

    TigerLilea Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    They have shipped it! I'm trying not to get my hopes up too high as nothing has worked so far over the past 26 years. But I'm excited to have something new to try. :emoji_fingers_crossed:
     
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  13. TigerLilea

    TigerLilea Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    While I don't like the idea of having to use this product because it isn't 100% l sakei, I'm desperate for something that will help with my sinus issues. If pure l sakei was available in Canada, of course I'd purchase that instead. As it isn't used long term I'm willing to take the risk. I've been fighting with this for the past 26 years and have lost too much time to Chronic Sinusitis. I'm sick of feeling half dead for months as a time. :dead:
     
  14. TigerLilea

    TigerLilea Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    My Bactoferm F-RM-52 is lost somewhere between Montreal and Vancouver. The company is out of stock right now so I'll have to wait a few weeks before I get my replacement shipment. :emoji_disappointed_relieved: At least now I can do my uBiome Sniffle-ome test before starting the l. sakei which actually makes more sense. I'd like to know if my natural l. sakei is low or non-existent.
     
  15. Webdog

    Webdog Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    I'll write up a review of my experiences in about a week. Mostly positive so far.
     
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  16. TigerLilea

    TigerLilea Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    That sounds good! I'm really hoping for some improvement when I finally get started.
     
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  17. Webdog

    Webdog Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Apologies if this meanders a bit, but my thoughts have been very scattered for a couple months now.

    I've been using this product for about a month, and I feel like I'm still learning. I really haven't had the energy to properly track my progress. But I'll note some things I think I've learned.

    The product comes with no instructions, but others have put up their experiences on YouTube. Such as this video Dr. Chris Sovey did with a similar L. Sakei product that ships from New Zealand.



    Dr. Sovey mixes his powder with water, then applies it with a cotton swap to his inner nostril. You can see this at the 2 minute mark in his video.

    I tried Dr. Sovey's water method. I also tried just applying the powder dry with a cotton swap in a similar fashion. I didn't notice much difference, and both methods were very effective in quickly improving my sinus congestion. I noticed an improvement within 12 hours!

    Immediately, I was breathing better at night.

    However, swabbing the inside of my nose really wasn't reaching the deeper regions and progress slowed.

    I wanted to reach deeply into the nasopharynx, especially after reading a thread by @Hip on PR.

    [​IMG]

    I quickly learned just how unpleasant using a swab to reach the nasaopharynx was. I wouldn't recommend trying it.

    So instead, I tried 3 different methods to get the probiotic to get deep to the nasapharynx:
    1. Mixing the powder with water and used a rubber Ear Washing Syringe Squeeze Bulb to squirt the liquid deep into my nose.
    2. Snorting the dry powder (usually off a spoon, use a finger to close the other nostril).
    3. Snorting the dry powder through a straw or paper tube (just like you see on tv crime shows!).
    All 3 methods seem to work pretty well. Wet and dry both seem effective. Try different methods; see what works for you.

    How often? From 1-3 times a day. I also varied the amount of powder I used. When my sinuses were more congested I increased the amount and frequency of treatments. If irritation or excessive soreness developed, I decreased the treatments.

    Do other things to loosen and get rid of excess mucus:
    • breathe steam to loosen mucus
    • occasional nasal washes as needed
    • occasional nasal spray as needed (I use the nutribiotic nasal spray plus product)
    • blow nose often
    • watch YouTube videos on sinus massage to help drain sinuses.
    What comes out when you blow your nose? Pussy mucus, clear thick mucus, scabby stuff, fuzzy grey stuff, green cottage cheese like stuff. Only once did I get a small amount of blood. After about 3 weeks, it was only clear thick mucus and a bit of whitish pussy mucus.

    Unpleasant side effects.
    • As regions of my nasal passage and sinuses became exposed, I experienced some mild pain that decreased with time. Although I couldn't see what was happening, it felt like a sore exposed to air that gradually healed over.
    • Sinus pressure in different regions when my sinus were draining. This could be mildly painful. I could feel and hear fluid moving around. It often had a "crackly" sound.
    • Sore throat for the first 3 weeks. This seemed to be due to sinus drainage. As the drainage decreased, so did the sore throats.
    • Excessive sleep. Almost as soon as I started the nasal probiotic, I started sleeping 11 hours a night instead of my usual 8. Currently I'm sleeping about 10 hours. I don't feel like I'm oversleeping, and unsure why my body needs this much sleep.
    • More fatigue. In addition to being sleepier, I've generally felt more fatigued and housebound. Hopefully this will improve.
    • Not every day will be an improvement. The treatment has been a "2 steps forward 1 step back" kind of thing. While not every day is better, every week has been.
    So, after almost a month, where do I stand?

    My sinuses are clearer than they've been in 15 years. And for a week now, no sore throats. :thumbup:

    It's been a gradual process that has been slowly working its way from clearing my outer nostrils to the nasopharynx and deep sinuses. My deep sinuses are still not completely clear, but I would say they are 60-80% drained.

    I can current feel a deep sore in my left nostril that is hurting more as it gradually becomes exposed to air. I expect it will heal over in a few days like the other less deep sores have.

    I plan to continue this product, and have already ordered another packet. The first packet is nearly gone after a month. I'm hoping to see continue gradual progress and at some point either discontinue the product or just use it occasionally.

    Some random thoughts:
    • Snorting the powder may have the additional ben efit of getting some of the probiotic to your lungs, which is the second biggest microbiome in your body after the gut.
    • I've had some acne on my shoulders that wouldn't heal. Using some of the probiotic powder on the acne sores seems to stop the itching and greatly accelerate the healing.
    • I tried putting my head upside down to get the powder deep up into my sinuses, but only managed to create a mess. This trick works well with nasal sprays, however.
    • Using more powder helps to clear my nostrils and sinuses, but too much can irritate. Finding the fine line between enough to help without causing too much irritation is half the battle.
    • Sometimes only one nostril will feel congested. Use more probiotic on that side until it clears up.
    Hope this is all readable and helps somebody.
     
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  18. Allele

    Allele Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Wow, thank you @Webdog for that comprehensive write-up. How fantastic you are able to breathe so much better :party:
    Looking forward to see if this works for me:nailbiting:
     
  19. TigerLilea

    TigerLilea Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Do you let the water solution sit for 15 minutes to let the bacteria wake up? As it is freeze dried it needs a few minutes to reactivate.

    I am still waiting for my shipment of Bactoferm F-RM-52 as the first shipment got lost in the mail and didn't arrive until three weeks later. The company I ordered from told me not to use it as in all likelihood the bacteria would have died in transit.

    I'm really happy that this is working for you, Webdog. It gives me hope that maybe I will have the same luck with my sinuses after fighting with Chronic Sinusitis for the past 26 years. I plan on using it in my neti pot so that I get as much sinus area as possible. As mine isn't pure l-sakei I don't plan on getting it into my lungs or swallowing any.
     
  20. Webdog

    Webdog Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    I've tried it several ways, and these work best for me:
    • Like in the video, letting it sit in water then swabbing inside my nostrils
    • Letting it sit in water, then squirting it deep towards my nasopharynx with an earwashing syringe bulb
    • Applying the powder directly by swabbing it inside my nostrils
    • Snorting the powder directly (best after a sinus rinse)
    To be honest, I can't tell the difference in effectiveness between doing it wet and doing it dry (I'm sure there's a joke in there somewhere). Both methods are very effective. I assume the moisture in the nose must be sufficient to activate the bacteria.

    Using the dry powder can be a bit more irritating, however. I've found a sinus rinse (or neti pot) to wet the nose just before applying the dry powder helps reduce the irritation.

    Snorting the powder gets the probiotic up in places I don't seem to be able to reach any other way. As I've cleared away the congestion deeper and deeper, the more I've found a need to get to the recesses only snorting seems to achieve.

    PS: In the past few days, I've experimented applying the probiotic to my ear canal very gently with a swab after I shower. I can't say if it helps, but it it doesn't seem to cause any problems. I'm trying to help clear my eustachian tubes.
     
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