1. Sign our petition calling on Cochrane to withdraw their review of Exercise Therapy for CFS here.
    Dismiss Notice
  2. Guest, the 'News in Brief' for the week beginning 15th April 2024 is here.
    Dismiss Notice
  3. Welcome! To read the Core Purpose and Values of our forum, click here.
    Dismiss Notice

Multidisciplinary rehabilitation treatment is not effective for ME/CFS: A review of the FatiGo trial, 2018, Vink & Vink-Niese

Discussion in 'Psychosomatic research - ME/CFS and Long Covid' started by Andy, Aug 6, 2018.

  1. Esther12

    Esther12 Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    4,393
    Thanks for those notes. I've still not found time to read this (I'm falling ever further behind with Tuller's blogs too). Thanks to Vink & Vink-Niese too.

    That point reminded me that it was explicitly marked as a retrospectively registered trial on ISRCTN:

    http://www.isrctn.com/ISRCTN77567702
     
  2. Dolphin

    Dolphin Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    5,092
     
    MEMarge, inox, Esther12 and 4 others like this.
  3. Dolphin

    Dolphin Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    5,092
    Just to point out in the PACE trial, there was a statistically significant improvement in the six minute walk test for the graded exercise therapy group although it could be argued that it was not clinically significant.
     
    inox, Esther12, Wonko and 3 others like this.
  4. Dolphin

    Dolphin Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    5,092
    So activity monitor results not available for a significant number.
     
    MEMarge, Hutan, Amw66 and 5 others like this.
  5. Dolphin

    Dolphin Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    5,092
    This puts the results in some context. However I don't accept it proves that these treatments are not cost-effective. No cost effectiveness calculations were proffered in the paper. If a drug got these results, it could be useful and cost-effective.
     
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2018
  6. Dolphin

    Dolphin Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    5,092
    Seems fair.
     
    Inara and Invisible Woman like this.
  7. Dolphin

    Dolphin Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    5,092
    While it is not ideal, I'm not sure if it means the trial is not properly designed.

    Another group could have been useful even a no-therapy group so one could see what natural improvements might have occurred over the time period.
     
    Inara, Hutan, Amw66 and 2 others like this.
  8. Dolphin

    Dolphin Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    5,092
    Well, there were improvements. Just because neither group had normal levels doesn't mean they were necessarily not effective.

    An interesting comparison
     
    Amw66 and Invisible Woman like this.
  9. Dolphin

    Dolphin Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    5,092
    Seems fair
     
    MEMarge and Invisible Woman like this.
  10. Dolphin

    Dolphin Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    5,092
    Lots of CFS studies include some patients who also have depression or anxiety. I don't see it as a full exclusion.
     
    Invisible Woman likes this.
  11. Dolphin

    Dolphin Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    5,092
    Just to point out again that there was a statistically significant improvement on the six minute walking test in the PACE trial (White et al 2011) though it could be argued that improvement wasn't clinically significant.
     
    Inara, Amw66 and Invisible Woman like this.
  12. Sly Saint

    Sly Saint Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    9,584
    Location:
    UK
  13. Trish

    Trish Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    52,278
    Location:
    UK
    I came across the trial this paper is critiquing recently and want to highlight the lack of clinically significant improvement in objectively measured physical activity which the authors show in a table but make no comment on.

    This is the trial:
    Multidisciplinary rehabilitation treatment versus cognitive behavioural therapy for patients with chronic fatigue syndrome: a randomized controlled trial
    Vos-Vromans et al.

    Vink and Vink Niese do a detailed analysis of the data from the electronic activity monitors, and this is the bit that stood out for me, not just because Vos-Vromans report the results but don't include them in their conclusions, but just how feeble the results were. I've added in the cost in Euros per person from their economic analysis paper:

    Treatment
    ...................Multidisciplinary rehab ............... CBT

    Treatment Cost/person
    8,989.06..................... 3,308.43
    Societal cost/person 14,307.95 ..................... 8,845.71

    Activity meter readings:
    Baseline
    206233.65 (40264.16).......................... 202033.66 (43379.41)

    26 weeks
    227283.24 (45698.55).......................210019.75(48068.09)
    change from baseline ... up 10.2% ......................... up 3.9%
    52 weeks 218214.41 (48564.30)........... .............215262.14 (57074.22)
    change from baseline... up 5.8% ........................... up 6.5%
    change from 26 weeks .. down 4.0% ....................... up 2.5%
    __________________

    Given that most definitions of ME/CFS require a level of fatigue that restricts daily activity to less than half what they were doing before, and given the average steps/day for women in the UK is around 5000, that would mean the trial participants are likely to be on less than 2500 steps/day. Given that they are able to attend lots of treatment sessions, they are probably at the upper end of ME/CFS functioning, so say they average 2000 steps/day at the start.
    If we assume the changes in activity levels measured are a reasonable proxy for steps/day, what would this mean?

    For someone who did the rehab:
    They start on 2000 steps/day.
    After 6 months 2204 steps/day,
    At 12 months 2116 steps/day

    For someone who did CBT:
    They start on 2000 steps/day.
    After 6 months, 2078 steps/day
    After 12 months, 2139 steps/day.

    So the net result from either treatment is that someone walking 2000 steps per day before treatment is now walking about 100 steps a day more. I think we can all agree that's nowhere near clinically significant. No wonder they don't even mention, let alone discuss or draw conclusions from this objective data in their papers.

    But it gets worse, as Vink and Vink-Niese point out. A significant number of participants didn't wear the actometers at 6 months, and even less at 12 months, some of them saying it was because they couldn't travel to the clinic to collect and return the actometer. That seems to me such a huge red flag it makes even this data likely to be an over inflated result.
    They presumably used the data from the whole cohort to calculate the average activity level at the start, and then only those who wore the actometer at the later stages, so we have no idea what the starting points were for those giving data at the end. What if, as seems likely, those who wore the actometers at the end where from the upper end of the activity levels at the start. So their average at the start may even have been higher than at the end.

    To quote Vink and Vink-Niese
    Yes, I know Vink and Vink Niese have drawn attention to all this already, and far more eloquently and completely than I can, but I have seen recently the subjective data from this trial being used to justify these treatments, so it's not over yet.

    That's got that off my chest!
     
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2022
    Snow Leopard, Sean, RedFox and 14 others like this.
  14. Mark Vink

    Mark Vink Established Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    77
    Thank you, that trial is a typical example of labelling ineffective treatment as effective and ignoring your own results. Or to put a differently, it is a typical example of opinion based medicine.

     
    Sean, Hutan, Wyva and 14 others like this.
  15. Sean

    Sean Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    7,193
    Location:
    Australia
    Yes, those very weak numbers are the best possible case scenario. Which is an appalling fact.
     
    Mark Vink, MEMarge, Trish and 3 others like this.

Share This Page