Lightning Process study in Norway - Given Ethics Approval February 2022

The study has now been approved by the Regional Committees for Medical and Health Research Ethics :(

Nina E. Steinkopf: Controversial study on ME-patients receives ethical approval

The Regional Committees for Medical and Health Research Ethics (REK) have now approved a controversial Norwegian study in which 120 ME patients are to be treated with LP. The decision, dated November 16th 2020, states that:

“After an overall assessment of the project application and feedback, the committee believes that the participants’ integrity and welfare are well safeguarded, and that the project will be able to produce new, socially useful knowledge. Provided that the conditions below are complied with, REK considers that the project is justifiable to carry out.”
 
The study has now been approved by the Regional Committees for Medical and Health Research Ethics :(

Nina E. Steinkopf: Controversial study on ME-patients receives ethical approval

The Regional Committees for Medical and Health Research Ethics (REK) have now approved a controversial Norwegian study in which 120 ME patients are to be treated with LP. The decision, dated November 16th 2020, states that:

“After an overall assessment of the project application and feedback, the committee believes that the participants’ integrity and welfare are well safeguarded, and that the project will be able to produce new, socially useful knowledge. Provided that the conditions below are complied with, REK considers that the project is justifiable to carry out.”

So sad, that such quackery continues to be given apparent credibility by institutions that should know better.
 
Nina E. Steinkopf with new blog post today.

She writes about the paradox that Norwegian health authorities give green light to this study at the same time as NICE in their draft explicitly warns against LP. She also ask if it's appropriate to seek psychiatric assistance if participants deteriorate, as is planned, instead of somatic care.

She's also added two manipulative sound bites from Phil Parker.

Flere bekymringer ved kontroversiell studie på ME-syke
google translation: more concerns regarding controversial study on ME patients
 
The Norwegian ME Association has sent open letters about the study to The National Committee for Medical and Health Research Ethics (NEM), The Research Ethic Committee at the University responsible for the study (NTNU) and to the Research Council of Norway.

The association's objections
In the letter to NEM, the association refers to the following research ethics and methodological issues (the same objections have been sent to the Research Ethics Committee at NTNU):

  • No clear distinction between the patient groups ME (in the USA ME / CFS) and chronic fatigue syndrome (without the cardinal symptom PEM).
  • Instead of an ordinary design with a group of independently selected patients and a placebo group, the study proposes that two groups receive treatment with different waiting times, where group two is informed that they will receive the treatment at a later time.
  • The planned intervention will be carried out by a project manager with a direct financial interest in the result of the study

Brev til NEM, NTNU og Norges Forskningsråd
google translation: Letters to NEM, NTNU and the Research Council of Norway
 
  • No clear distinction between the patient groups ME (in the USA ME / CFS) and chronic fatigue syndrome (without the cardinal symptom PEM).
  • Instead of an ordinary design with a group of independently selected patients and a placebo group, the study proposes that two groups receive treatment with different waiting times, where group two is informed that they will receive the treatment at a later time.
  • The planned intervention will be carried out by a project manager with a direct financial interest in the result of the study


The third point is strong, but the first two are I think a bit off target or soft. I wish I could bring some influence to bear but I am not sure what is best.

The study will be valueless, that is for sure. Hopefully that will be clear in due course. The issue is the insult to patients taking part.
 
Another point I wish they would bring up is that the background for the application uses terrible references like SMILE, I don't remember the details and if they used other studies as well. It's low quality and that's the case with the other similar studies (ref NICE).

At least following the research ethics guidelines in Norway (to anchor it to something the ethics committees should care about) you should not misrepresent the field you're interested in. We don't need yet another study like this when so many have already been done.
 
The third point is strong, but the first two are I think a bit off target or soft. I wish I could bring some influence to bear but I am not sure what is best.

The study will be valueless, that is for sure. Hopefully that will be clear in due course. The issue is the insult to patients taking part.
If I recall correctly REK did comment on the fact that the candidate has financial interest, but after being told the project couldn't be carried out unless the candidate carried out the coaching (?) they agreed the measurements taken to avoid bias were good enough.
 
Presumably they are happy that in that case this isn't science, it's marketing.
The conflict of interest here is about as thick as tobacco companies showing that tobacco doesn't cause cancer. Relative to scale and everything. It's maddening that something this absurd would go on.

Without the context of long covid, it would look terrible. With the current context, this is the kind of failure that should demand mass firings of everyone involved, the entirety of medical institutions in the country are beclowning themselves here. Basically no difference with spending all those resources on booze and private concerts, or whatever. Absolutely zero scientific, or medical, merit here. None.
 
The third point is strong, but the first two are I think a bit off target or soft. I wish I could bring some influence to bear but I am not sure what is best.

The study will be valueless, that is for sure. Hopefully that will be clear in due course. The issue is the insult to patients taking part.

I agree

The main issue with the study is that the "method" explicitly involves asking the participants to ignore symptoms, and pretend they are healthy. OBVIOUSLY THAT WILL RENDER THE QUESTIONNAIRE SCORES MEANINGLESS. Im writing this in caps cause I am simply shocked REK did not comment on this, I even mentioned it to them in detail.

A lawyer I know will submit a complaint in accordance with the public administration act here in Norway. He will bring up points related to paragraphs in in the Norwegian health research act. That will maybe lead to something. If you want me to forward some points related to the methodology or likewise, u can. Just need to be before friday
 
Moved post


It will be interesting to see how REK (regional ethics committee) in Norway judges the mess of an application they have received for an LP-study. I believe they did it last week, but verdict is not out yet.

They have gotten a lot of thorough background and methodological feedback from me and other patients, so I will only totally lose hope in the system if the study goes through :facepalm: At least in its suggested form.

Well this aged like a fine wine :banghead: At least it has come to my attention, that this particular regional ethics committee in Norway (REK MIDT), is well known by the rest of the regional committees to allow research they themself never would. Hence, there might be a chance to push a complaint here
 
I agree

The main issue with the study is that the "method" explicitly involves asking the participants to ignore symptoms, and pretend they are healthy. OBVIOUSLY THAT WILL RENDER THE QUESTIONNAIRE SCORES MEANINGLESS. Im writing this in caps cause I am simply shocked REK did not comment on this, I even mentioned it to them in detail.

A lawyer I know will submit a complaint in accordance with the public administration act here in Norway. He will bring up points related to paragraphs in in the Norwegian health research act. That will maybe lead to something. If you want me to forward some points related to the methodology or likewise, u can. Just need to be before friday
I would also ask him to look at "The act on ethics and integrity in research". (My bolding)

Research ethics committee said:
Misconduct involving fabrication, falsification and plagiarism (FFP) is considered serious. The preparatory work of the Act also lists additional actions which can be considered serious in particular cases. The list includes p. a.:

  • to withhold-, mislead about-, or selectively/secretly dispose of undesired results;
  • to mislead or conceal one's own or others scientific efforts and / or scientific achievements. Improper allocation of authorship etc.
  • to destruct research data / material to prevent investigations of misconduct.
The list of such actions specified in the Act is not exhaustive.

The act also states that no action will be regarded as misconduct unless it was committed intentionally or with gross negligence.
(https://www.forskningsetikk.no/en/r.../the-act-on-ethics-and-integrity-in-research/)
I think this only stands in the preparatory works (høring) and the law itself states something along the lines of "other serious misconduct".

Calling it a "three day intervention" instead of stating it's LP from the start is misleading, using highly contested references and not mentioning that they are highly contested is withholding information. Since they are interested in work and disability payments, that the active arms of PACE had more disability payouts would be a nice mention I think (and something they should know about, seeing how large PACE is and how much knowledge they claim to have on the subject. So either they are misleading/withholding information or grossly negligent).

Also that long term follow up results in other studies show that participants don't answer as positively at LTFU (the reanalyses done might also come in hand, but I'm not sure it's needed). These points could play into the health research act as well since it's stated there that patients should not be harmed.

They were going to have some data from NAV to look at disability and stuff so I guess they can show to some objective markers as well and thus complaining about the subjective questionnaires might lead us nowhere. I would really try to get in something about their conduct, as that is very important for the ethics side of things. I think it will give more strength to the arguments than just focusing on the methodology (can we use the NICE's tables to show previous studies like these produce low quality research, and there has been a lot of it in this field? Seeing how research should be of "hiqh academic quality").

The way some of the people involved characterized patients in the "ME-war" story in Dagbladet is not exactly ethically sound conduct. I don't think NEM has any guidelines for public speaking, but the other two ethics committees do and NEM look to their guidelines, might be worth looking into as well if mentioning Dagbladet.

Everything Steinkopf has written about the study and how different bodies have said they knew nothing about the study and had nothing to do with it might also go under "misleading"? If nothing else it looks very messy from the outside.
 
I would also ask him to look at "The act on ethics and integrity in research". (My bolding)

forgot to mention that, he will

I dont agree about not emphasizing the problems with subjective questionnaires, because of how lightning process works - it makes the research literally useless, and I don't believe for a second they will include any objective outcomes.

There are many more problems ofc
 
forgot to mention that, he will

I dont agree about not emphasizing the problems with subjective questionnaires, because of how lightning process works - it makes the research literally useless, and I don't believe for a second they will include any objective outcomes.

There are many more problems ofc
I'm not saying "not emphasize", I'm saying "add other things as well". Especially if this was the complaint to NEM. :) The new webpage has a nice page on the general ethical guidelines, to me there are potential problems with 1, 3, 4, 6, 7 and 8. When it comes to methods, they can hide behind "2. Academic freedom" (which I guess is why they used that phrase a lot in the summer... it should be held in check by "3. Quality", but :banghead:) and that would be more frustrating than this already is.
 
Nina E. Steinkopf and professor Ola Didrik Saugstad have written a splendid opinion piece to the local newspaper Adresseavisa located in the same city as the university (NTNU) responsible for the LP-study.

For some reason the text won't google translate to English, but perhaps someone here knows of a way around this?

ME-striden: Studie på Lightning Process ved NTNU
 
Last edited:
Nina E. Steinkopf and professor Ola Didrik Saugstad have written a splendid opinion piece to the local newspaper Adresseavisa located in the same city as the university (NTNU) responsible for the LP-study.

For some reason the text won't google translate to English, but perhaps someone here knows of a way around this?

ME-striden: Studie på Lightning Process ved NTNU
I could read it through the Chrome browser translation. Excellent article! Cynical, unethical and indefensible is definitely correct.
 
I would like to suggest someone ask them about how they plan to.cope with harm caused to either mental or physical health caused by undergoing this process.

The very nature of the process implies the person is capable of controlling their symptoms & if they can't it's because they are doing it wrong or really don't want to "Stop!"

In an individual who cannot control their symptoms because the underlying disorder doesn't allow them too and /or patients who a psychologically vulnerable this could cause mental health problems. There have already been reports of suicide post LP.

What measures will be taken to ensure that only patients who aren't psychologically vulnerable will be allowed to take part? What measures will be used to check patients haven't been left with mental health problems afterwards.

In order to provide the best level of protection for patients these checks should be carried out independently of the trial itself - the pre-LP checks to assess suitability of candidates are not good enough and are not independent. None of the therapists involved in the trial should take part in these pre & post trial checks.

Note - I don't think this trial should happen at all but if they insist in going ahead then they should take every possible precaution to protect participants.
 
I would like to suggest someone ask them about how they plan to.cope with harm caused to either mental or physical health caused by undergoing this process.

The very nature of the process implies the person is capable of controlling their symptoms & if they can't it's because they are doing it wrong or really don't want to "Stop!"

In an individual who cannot control their symptoms because the underlying disorder doesn't allow them too and /or patients who a psychologically vulnerable this could cause mental health problems. There have already been reports of suicide post LP.

What measures will be taken to ensure that only patients who aren't psychologically vulnerable will be allowed to take part? What measures will be used to check patients haven't been left with mental health problems afterwards.

In order to provide the best level of protection for patients these checks should be carried out independently of the trial itself - the pre-LP checks to assess suitability of candidates are not good enough and are not independent. None of the therapists involved in the trial should take part in these pre & post trial checks.

Note - I don't think this trial should happen at all but if they insist in going ahead then they should take every possible precaution to protect participants.
Nina E. Steinkopf and prof. Ola D. Saugstad wrote about among other this point in their opinion piece.

I am not able to google translate the link, unfortunately, but here's what they write concerning your question (google translated):

In the project application, it is claimed that it has not been documented that it is likely that serious side effects will occur. Should this nevertheless happen, the instructor will contact a psychologist / psychiatrist for immediate advice and any help in finding a psychologist to whom the GP can refer, advice on a private psychologist or advice on referral to a district psychiatric center.

With this, the project management shows that having the biased attitude of ME or worsening of ME is due to mental conditions. Thus, the study management is not independent as one would expect with such a clinical study.
 
Back
Top Bottom