Let's talk wheelchairs and mobility scooters

[Shadrach Loom]

https://www.tramper.co.uk/press/561247bea00324f026e278d3

List above of all public parks and gardens and nature reserves which hire or lend Trampers.

Has anyone used one and if so, what was the suspension and comfort like on uneven paths?

Edit - I have booked a Tramper for a two-mile circumnavigation of a waterfowl infested lake near Tring on Tuesday. Will report back on joltiness.

The Tring lake glitters in the bed of what must have once been a quarry, surrounded by steep banks of wildflowers attended by bees. The walking (and scootering) track circles the quarry’s rim. Plenty of waterfowl were on display: the large ones were recognisably swans, the moderately-sized ones were presumably geese and the smaller ones may well have been ducks. All of them looked serene and eminently suitable for transforming into cassoulet. There were also some ungulates penned at the lake’s fringes. Hides are set up at regular intervals for the benefit of furtive wildlife voyeurs. Dogs are banned. Overall, a lovely location for scooterists pretending to have a walk.

The Tramper is solid and seriously powerful, coping extraordinarily well with gradients (my folding three-wheel Atto scooter seemed like a toy in comparison). It was smooth over gravelly surfaces and much of the impact of travelling over uneven ground was absorbed, although when a jolt hits, it hits.

The twist grip needs to be held in position to maintain one’s preferred speed. This is significantly more demanding on the arms and wrist than the standard thumb control of a mobility scooter. Although the comfy chair’s position is adjustable, the armrests and handlebars are not.

Anyway, it was a fantastic experience for 40 minutes of peaceful trundling, at which point, three-quarters round the two mile circuit, I suddenly crashed, with my vision failing at the same time as my arms gave out and I lost the ability to maintain a riding position. After a restorative lie down in the grass, we struggled back, Mrs Loom guiding the handlebar and throttle. I reckon that the payback is going to be a pretty grim couple of bedroom-bound days.

So, the Tramper offers incredible access to country parks and nature reserves for pwME who have very limited mobility, and who don’t have the rare combination of a beefy powerchair or scooter with a converted vehicle. That experience is dangerously seductive.

It’s probably sensible to experiment with very short rides first, but that will hardly seem worth the drive to get to one of the places that offer Trampers, and even the wimpiest of marked trail circuits is going to be far longer than is safe for some pwME. I’m 50/50 on whether I will ever try again.

 

[Binkie4]

We go to Wisley gardens as often as we can ( which is not often at present) and they have two or maybe three Trampers. I first heard of them when Melanie Reid who writes in the Times and needs a wheelchair full time following a riding accident, wrote of the freedom she felt when using her Tramper over their adjoining fields.

I haven't tried one for the reason you describe @Shadrach Loom - the need to keep arms extended which I learnt I couldn't do on buying my first scooter, a luggie. It was a very expensive mistake but I couldn't hold up my arms while extended. It was exhausting. I only used it 3 or 4 times but have kept it- resale value is very low, and it might be useful for a holiday because it folds into suitcase size. I hope you recover quickly from your crash. I can imagine how exhausting that was.

I love my replacement which I have had for two years. It's a power chair with a thumb control and it's just ideal for me. I am so comfortable resting my arms on the armrest and it has a reasonably comfortable seat. I think it cost about £2800. I feel very mobile including grass, up grassy hills: not so good on gravel but will manage short distances.

It folds and if you have the right size car boot, a power lift can be fitted to swing it into the boot. Ideal. We were lucky that our existing old small estate would just fit it. That car isn't ULEZ compliant. We did try to replace it last autumn but couldn't find a suitable model so- this information might be helpful for others who will be affected by ULEz and are disabled- applied for a ULEZ extension ( until summer 2027) by completing their very fiddly procedure for the disabled who have a fitted mechanism to lift a wheelchair into a car boot. It took a couple of months so we have a reprieve and can take time in looking for a suitable replacement car. I am not eligible for mobility allowance - too old now.

edit: I forgot to mention that the chair has carrying space under the seat for odds and ends like macs, umbrellas, sunglasses etc, all of which is covered by a waterproof cover which secures with velcro. It is a trekker foldalite power chair costing about £2200, a bit less than I remembered. The last time I was out, a woman approached me asking about it and where it could be bought.

 

[Kitty]

I'm glad you got to try it, @Shadrach Loom, and I hope it hasn't floored you for too long.

Scooters aren't great for pwME, are they. There's nothing to support your arms and you torso, or stop your legs from flopping about, so you burn through a lot of energy really quickly. I've used Trampers, and they're an especially knackering scooter type for the reasons you say.

Hope you don't mind me contradicting you on the beefy powerchair, though, because it's a misconception that can mean people don't try trips to places they could access. I've crossed ploughed fields, mud, wet sand, and steep grassed hillsides on a hired Shopmobility Pride Go-go boot scooter. There was nothing remotely beefy about it, but like anything with a decent battery, it'll do a lot more than roll along an asphalt path. I honestly wouldn't recommend any of the above activities, but only because they're sodding uncomfortable as well as tiring—the scooter will do it if you're bloody-minded enough a birdwatcher.

The powerchair I most often use for wildlife surveys is a beat-up secondhand Quickie Sedeo, which is a bog standard model. It has zero "all-terrain" features to help me plough through thigh-high grass to count butterflies or check reptile refugia, or squelch round muddy pond edges to survey amphibians, but it does it all the same. Deep dry sand, mud, or loose gravel will tend to make any multi-purpose chair or scooter lose traction, but they'll go through shallow water, long grass, and heather quite happily.

I'll shut up now about my one-woman crusade to convince people that the countryside can be much more accessible than you might think, and wish you a speedy recovery!

 

[bicentennial]

Wheelchair Services in the UK is not hospital based (p.5) now. I think it was originally, but its long been outsourced to an assortment of sub-sub-sub-contractors, monetised commercial cheap-skate shops, maximising profit by cutting big corners, to minimise NHS budgets.

For which the NHS turns a blind eye. This is typical once a subsidised welfare state outsources to massively expand otherwise niche markets, which most people can't afford (in economies reliant upon big wage differentials. The systematic bullying of vulnerable people can get out of hand.

Also the NHS is being cheated in several ways. And the honest cohort of shop / garage staff are very distressed by the cruelties they are forced to witness and even inflict, thereto. The NHS can be overcharged for supplies. No-one can track if a used item is logged as new.

It was a post-code lucky dip. Now all the contractors do the same. Its no longer a postcode lucky dip. Think of a world where people are given appropriate wheelchairs to stay in circulation in their communities, and also to stay in their own homes, instead of being incarceratied in Homes

Not daring to complain before or after they get written off by such "services".

 

[obeat]

Can I ask how often you charge your electric wheelchair? Do you charge it overnight? What type of batteries do you use?

 

[Kitty]

Can I ask how often you charge your electric wheelchair?

Every time I use it, or once a week if it's been standing unused because I haven't been out.

ETA: if the chair's not being used at all, a month is the maximum I'd leave a battery without charging it.

Do you charge it overnight?

No, just whenever. One of my powerchairs—the one I use most often—lives in the back of my van, so as I have to leave a window slightly open for the cable, it's best to charge during daylight.

What type of batteries do you use?

MK Gel in one, which are more expensive than some but very good—I work my batteries really hard doing wildlife stuff.

A German-made lithium brand in the other, whose name I'd have to open the battery box to find out. One of the big companies though.

 

[bicentennial]

I think some mobility scooters require a trickle-charge type of battery. When not in use these batteries must be left charging on a mains, that keeps its charge topped up.

Then too long without the trickle-charging would wreck the battery.

Also it is said that an extension lead for the mains electricity supply could be dangerous, so it needs to be parked near the mains socket.

Such things need to be known and solved in advance, or they did 10 years ago.

And the goverment consultation and provision for discounted charging points, to encourage electric vehicles, did not extend to mobility scooters (roadworthy if able to do 8mph, and taxed).

Then e-bikes or e-scooters got round to starting fires, on charge inside people's homes, bit unregulated.

And I think some kind of battery acid may give off fumes (like photocopiers can do) - if so best not charged inside my breathing-living space.

 

[Kitty]

I think some mobility scooters require a trickle-charge type of battery. When not in use these batteries must be left charging on a mains, that keeps its charge topped up.

No. If lead acid or gel batteries were left attached to a trickle charger it'd damage them irrevocably. You'd just find yourself with a bill for hundreds of pounds to replace them.

Float charging is fine with a regulated smart charger, but if there's any doubt, don't leave it plugged in. A once a week maintenance charge is fine if you're not using the chair. If you're not sure you'll remember, you can buy 7-day timers very cheaply.

I think some kind of battery acid may give off fumes

They're sealed, so there are no major concerns. In good quality mobility batteries the acid is fully absorbed into glass mats or (more commonly) sealed in gel.

Obviously lithium batteries should be attended whenever the charger's connected to the mains, but the risk's very low with the manufacturer-supplied packs that come with wheelchairs and scooters.

The awful fires you read about happen because people think five minutes on YouTube is enough to understand a complex technology. They pair cheaply produced or modified battery packs with inappropriate chargers, then plug them in while they're asleep. And keep their souped-up ebikes in the hallways of flats, so when the cells overheat their only means of escape is blocked by an indoor demonstration of a thermal runaway reaction, with added toxic gases.

All lithium cells need a battery management system, and those that come supplied with a chair or scooter will have one built in. The batteries should take at least two or three times more charge/discharge cycles than lead bricks and give you a longer ride time as well.

 

[bicentennial]

thankyou @Kitty, that clarifies a lot for me. It certainly is a complex technology and high quality tech matters a lot.

Maintenance must be manageable, especially if there are long periods when unable to to access or organise it. So - about trickle charging:

"... especially useful for batteries that are not used frequently, as it prevents them from becoming depleted over time.

A trickle charger is a device that slowly charges a battery at a rate equal to its self-discharge rate, helping to maintain its full charge without overcharging.

Thats very useful if weekly access becomes a problem.

Maybe those trickle-charge scooter batteries are obsolete by now. The battery supplier told me - years ago - that its a type of scooter / battery which must be left on charge all the time while not in use. Some golf-carts like-wise.

On doing a search, I am not clear if this trickle-charging is provided by the type of battery - or by a charger - or by some built-in, on-board "battery management system" (BMS).

And if the data is not consistent, I would double-check everything anyway, and with experts. The links below give information:

Trickle charging - Wikipedia

Trickle charging is the process of charging a fully charged battery at a rate equal to its self-discharge rate, enabling the battery to remain at its fully charged level. ... lead acid ... ... ... other battery chemistries

Trickle Charging Explained: How It Works, Benefits, and When to Use It

This article explains what trickle charging is, how it differs from float charging, its working principles, ideal applications, and concludes that proper use extends battery life.

Trickle Battery Charger 12V 1.5A - Toolstation

Keep 12V batteries in vehicles or equipment fully charged and optimised ... Suitable for lead acid, gel and standard maintenance free and deep cycle batteries.

I think the scooter battery I was remembering as a "trickle-charge" battery was a deep-cycle battery which needed trickle-charging.

Otherwise:

How To Charge Your Mobility Scooter or Power Chair Battery

If you have any further questions about the batteries and charging just give us a call: 0800 111 4774 (freefone within UK)

Keep your mobility scooter or powerchair running reliably by learning how to care for its battery.

This guide and the CareCo video explain the different battery types and sizes and show proper charging steps, safe storage, and simple maintenance you can do at home.

You'll find step-by-step charging procedures, tips to extend battery life, and clear answers to common questions so you can feel ...

 

[Kitty]

Maybe those trickle-charge scooter batteries are obsolete by now.

As far as I know it's never been possible to keep loading a battery up with charge without discharging it. It defies all sense even without an understanding of chemistry.

I was told to do it with my first chair, and when the batteries started losing voltage after a short ride I took them to a small company whose business is batteries. They were convinced I'd misunderstood; they couldn't believe a mobility specialist would hand someone an unregulated charger and tell them to leave it plugged in permanently. Luckily I was using the chair some days so the guy was able to rebalance the batteries to some extent, but they never sustained voltage for as long as they should and I barely got a year out of them. I usually get two to three years of consistently good performance, and I change them before they get into the state of that first set.

You soon learn that people who sell mobility equipment are as likely to be talking fanny as anyone else. Some go into the industry because they can screw big bucks out of older people with limited knowledge and no alternative, and the only bit they're experts in is selling overpriced, mediocre equipment. You don't always get to meet the person who actually does know—the engineer in mucky overalls who works in a windowless cupboard behind the shiny salesroom.

 

[obeat]

Float charging is fine with a regulated smart charger, but if there's any doubt, don't leave it plugged in. A once a week maintenance charge is fine if you're not using the chair. If you're not sure you'll remember, you can buy 7-day timers very cheaply.

Ok so can you use a timer with a float charger? I have a downstairs wheelchair but if I put it to charge overnight I'm not downstairs again for 12 to 14 hours. The manual says to charge overnight and the seller told me that there is a cut out. Seller did have a biomedical engineering degree!