Let's talk wheelchairs and mobility scooters

[Kitty]

Talking about powered wheelchairs, has anyone ever tried one of those power packs you can attach to manual wheelchairs?

I've only used the type that helps your companion push the chair, when I first started struggling to walk. She said it was a big help, specially uphill.

Other than that, my wheelies have always been more about getting out into the countryside than shopping etc (although I do depend on them for that as well). You need a slightly more robust powerchair for that, so the powerpacks weren't really suitable for me.

 

[Shadrach Loom]

I'm thinking of getting a scooter, and there seems to be a huge trade-off between portability and comfort. There are things like the Atto Sport or the eFoldi which my wife or an Uber driver could reasonably be asked to lift in and out of a boot, but they seem pretty flimsy. Anything robust enough to sit happily in for an hour is either not designed to be easily transportable, or breaks down into a hideously complex five-piece puzzle for reassembly. Has anyone found something that bridges this gap?

 

[Kitty]

Has anyone found something that bridges this gap?

I hired a Pride GoGo Sport on a year-long loan from our local council, and it was very capable. We went across all kinds of terrain, including deep mud and adverse cambers over rough grass. Given that it's only actually designed for shopping, it was pretty impressive. When you get it out of a vehicle, everything slots into place quite easily—they can seem a bit awkward to start with, but you soon get the knack.

These scooters are tiring to ride, however. There's no support for your upper body or to stop your knees splaying out, so you're working all the time to stay in position. This might not matter if you only need it for short shopping trips or visits to social venues where you can transfer to a comfy chair; I'm a birdwatcher, so I need more support and capability (I now have a massive tank of a wheelie).

Every mobility vehicle is a series of compromises, but the GoGo Sport was the best of numerous portable options I've tried over the years. I wouldn't waste your time and money with lightweight wheelchairs*; if you need portability, most boot scooters will perform many times better.

You may also be able to take them on public transport, as you can with almost all wheelchairs. If this is a useful option for you, some companies will allow you to try out the manoeuvres in the depot before you get on a service bus full of grumpy passengers and bulky luggage. Some even insist you do so before taking a scooter on a bus, and will then issue a pass to show to the driver—a friend in another city had to go in and show that she could steer properly before they'd let her on! (It was very straightforward, though.)

Avoid three-wheeler scooters, which can be unstable on bad pavements and uneven dropped kerbs, and always try and hire or borrow the model you've chosen first if possible. You can't get a proper handle on whether or not something works for you until you've used it in real life, on both good and bad days. Or start by buying secondhand, specially if money's tight.


* Except for trike attachments for self-propel wheelies, which can be fine.

 

[Shadrach Loom]

I hired a Pride GoGo Sport on a year-long loan from our local council, and it was very capable. We went across all kinds of terrain, including deep mud and adverse cambers over rough grass. Given that it's only actually designed for shopping, it was pretty impressive. When you get it out of a vehicle, everything slots into place quite easily—they can seem a bit awkward to start with, but you soon get the knack.

These scooters are tiring to ride, however. There's no support for your upper body or to stop your knees splaying out, so you're working all the time to stay in position. This might not matter if you only need it for short shopping trips or visits to social venues where you can transfer to a comfy chair; I'm a birdwatcher, so I need more support and capability (I now have a massive tank of a wheelie).

Every mobility vehicle is a series of compromises, but the GoGo Sport was the best of numerous portable options I've tried over the years. I wouldn't waste your time and money with lightweight wheelchairs*; if you need portability, most boot scooters will perform many times better.

You may also be able to take them on public transport, as you can with almost all wheelchairs. If this is a useful option for you, some companies will allow you to try out the manoeuvres in the depot before you get on a service bus full of grumpy passengers and bulky luggage. Some even insist you do so before taking a scooter on a bus, and will then issue a pass to show to the driver—a friend in another city had to go in and show that she could steer properly before they'd let her on! (It was very straightforward, though.)

Avoid three-wheeler scooters, which can be unstable on bad pavements and uneven dropped kerbs, and always try and hire or borrow the model you've chosen first if possible. You can't get a proper handle on whether or not something works for you until you've used it in real life, on both good and bad days. Or start by buying secondhand, specially if money's tight.


* Except for trike attachments for self-propel wheelies, which can be fine.

Thanks, some great advice there! I was leaning towards three wheelers because I used one from Brent Cross’ shopmobility, and I liked the tight turning circle. Will bear your caution in mind and think about stability on kerbs as well. Mrs Loom has the final say on ease of assembly and removal from car, though.

Definitely was thinking scooter rather than powerchair: the tiller makes me feel less exposed and it’s somehow less embarrassing for an ambulatory user. What you say about trying before buying is eminently sensible: I have not really liked any mobility aid I’ve bought so far (an attendant wheelchair and a pair of folding canes) and I’m early enough into all this to still have a reasonable hope of suddenly getting better. But I’m silly, and I like getting gadgets, and I really want to make some sort of positive commitment to spending time doing normal stuff in public spaces.

 

[Kitty]

I was leaning towards three wheelers because I used one from Brent Cross’ shopmobility, and I liked the tight turning circle.

If you like that model and can find it for sale, there's no reason not to go for one. It's just that—as with everything!—there's a lot of variability between makes and models, and I'd say it's best to avoid any that you haven't already given a thorough trial on bad paving.

My late aunt and mum both used basic three-wheelers at various points, and encountered models that were nothing short of hazardous. The fact that they were both getting on in age was a factor, but it wasn't only that. I borrowed one of them when I was in my 40s, and it was hopeless because I sometimes have balance issues. I never felt safe on it and was tensed up all the time, which was nearly as knackering as walking.

A four-wheeler is much less likely to throw someone with this kind of vulnerability, but if you don't, a good quality three-wheeler may be fine. It would deffo be easier to use on buses—though I found with the GoGo Sport that, in an emergency, it was light enough to lift the back end and move it round a bit if I got jammed in a tight space!

I've honestly never felt embarrassed about using a powerchair, even though I can get up and reach stuff off the top shelf in Tesco—and indeed climb a bank to get a better view of a bird, on a good day. What matters is that I can't walk round our huge Tesco without it, and I'd never get to a nature reserve. I've said it before (possibly even in this thread), but I don't see it as any different to wearing my glasses. I can just about read without them, but it's really hard and I can't do it for more than a few minutes. People would think I was batty if I didn't use them!

 

[MEMarge]

I see you are based in London @Shadrach Loom, I bought a scooter from Mobility Giant in Westerham, a year ago.
https://www.mobilitygiant.co.uk/t/buy/car-boot

It's only about 30 mins from us, so I was able to visit. It is based in some old farm barns, so great to try out some all terrain scooters, which is what I was after. We were looking to buy a car with a ramp anyway.

If you are not near enough to visit, they do deliver, with a 14 day trial period. Their staff are very knowledgable about the scooters.
They only sell scooters in very good condition and up to 4 years old, with new batteries. I have been very pleased with mine.
Good luck with your search.

 

[Wits_End]

Excellent information, Kitty and MEMarge, thank you. My caree is talking about getting a mobility scooter, so this might be useful for her. (Mobility Giant seems to be rather nearer Bat & Ball station than Westerham, though - which is a shame, as there's a bus to Westerham. Not that far as the crow flies, but it looks as though there's no pedestrian shortcut and you have to go on a long detour to get there)

 

[Kitty]

My caree is talking about getting a mobility scooter

If you're buying from a dealer, many of them will do in-home demos. Some thoughts about trying them out:

• Never try just one, because you need to get a sense of the different types of ride and controls. Once you have an idea which model you like, it's best to try it on more than one occasion if possible, though of course this can be a tough ask for some ME patients.
  
  
• Always ride it outdoors, and always try crossing a road using a dropped kerb. Some people, specially if they're older, not very confident, or have been housebound for a long time, find they just can't get used to riding a scooter. If you don't feel okay after a few minutes to cross a quiet side road road, maybe think about hiring one and giving yourself a longer trial before you make a final decision, or at least buying a cheap secondhand one first.
  
  
• Cold weather is a good time to buy, because you can tell how much protection your legs get and how much that matters to you—some have seat supports that are open all round, and it's hard to keep the backs of your legs warm if they're not against a solid surface.
  
  
• You need very good gloves to use a scooter, even when it's not all that cold. Wear your bulkiest gloves or mitts to make sure you can still use all the controls okay.
  
  
• If you can summon the energy, try reversing it in a tight space or round a wheelie bin, to check the turning circle. Don't be embarrassed if you mess it up! You probably will, but remember the salesperson has seen it a 100 times before and nobody is born able to manoeuvre a scooter.
  
  
• If it's a boot scooter, whoever's going to carry it should take it apart, lift and carry all the components, and mime putting the heaviest and most awkward into a car boot. Finally, put it back together again to see how easy it is. Again, don't worry about messing it up first time—it's important you can manage it quickly and easily, because one day you WILL be doing it when it's raining and the scooter's dripping and filthy.
  
  
• Check the battery type and size. Lithium ion batteries are much lighter and will go further, but the pack may cost twice as much. If you're absolutely sure you're going to use a scooter often, they're a worthwhile investment—much easier to lift and they may last 10-15 years before needing replacement. The higher the amp-hour (often written Ah) rating of the batteries, the longer they will last between charges.
  
  
• Check whether you can charge the battery whilst it's off the scooter. If you plan to keep the scooter in a car, an outhouse, or anywhere without a power socket, this is really important. Having to bring the whole scooter into the house every time is enough of a pain that it can discourage you from going out, and if it has lead acid/gel batteries, you need to recharge every time you use them and at least once a month if the scooter's out of use due to a health downturn.
  
  
• Don't rush it, and if the salesperson is pressuring you over the time you're taking, don't buy from them. Bear in mind that you often need at least 15-20 minutes to start feeling properly uncomfortable in a chair that doesn't suit you, and the same goes for scooters.

 

[Shadrach Loom]

If you're buying from a dealer, many of them will do in-home demos. Some thoughts about trying them out:

• Never try just one, because you need to get a sense of the different types of ride and controls. Once you have an idea which model you like, it's best to try it on more than one occasion if possible, though of course this can be a tough ask for some ME patients.
  
  
• Always ride it outdoors, and always try crossing a road using a dropped kerb. Some people, specially if they're older, not very confident, or have been housebound for a long time, find they just can't get used to riding a scooter. If you don't feel okay after a few minutes to cross a quiet side road road, maybe think about hiring one and giving yourself a longer trial before you make a final decision, or at least buying a cheap secondhand one first.
  
  
• Cold weather is a good time to buy, because you can tell how much protection your legs get and how much that matters to you—some have seat supports that are open all round, and it's hard to keep the backs of your legs warm if they're not against a solid surface.
  
  
• You need very good gloves to use a scooter, even when it's not all that cold. Wear your bulkiest gloves or mitts to make sure you can still use all the controls okay.
  
  
• If you can summon the energy, try reversing it in a tight space or round a wheelie bin, to check the turning circle. Don't be embarrassed if you mess it up! You probably will, but remember the salesperson has seen it a 100 times before and nobody is born able to manoeuvre a scooter.
  
  
• If it's a boot scooter, whoever's going to carry it should take it apart, lift and carry all the components, and mime putting the heaviest and most awkward into a car boot. Finally, put it back together again to see how easy it is. Again, don't worry about messing it up first time—it's important you can manage it quickly and easily, because one day you WILL be doing it when it's raining and the scooter's dripping and filthy.
  
  
• Check the battery type and size. Lithium ion batteries are much lighter and will go further, but the pack may cost twice as much. If you're absolutely sure you're going to use a scooter often, they're a worthwhile investment—much easier to lift and they may last 10-15 years before needing replacement. The higher the amp-hour (often written Ah) rating of the batteries, the longer they will last between charges.
  
  
• Check whether you can charge the battery whilst it's off the scooter. If you plan to keep the scooter in a car, an outhouse, or anywhere without a power socket, this is really important. Having to bring the whole scooter into the house every time is enough of a pain that it can discourage you from going out, and if it has lead acid/gel batteries, you need to recharge every time you use them and at least once a month if the scooter's out of use due to a health downturn.
  
  
• Don't rush it, and if the salesperson is pressuring you over the time you're taking, don't buy from them. Bear in mind that you often need at least 15-20 minutes to start feeling properly uncomfortable in a chair that doesn't suit you, and the same goes for scooters.

I have two hours booked with Wheelfreedom in Chessington tomorrow, so this is super timely. I was already taking the Chief Carrying Things Officer but will take gloves and a wheelybin too.

 

[Binkie4]

I bought a wheelchair from Wheelfreedom in the summer.

Be prepared to look independently. They seemed very keen for me to try a particular model which I quickly knew was not for me. I had to be persistent in pursuing my own choice, maybe because the staff member we were dealing with struggled in erecting the chair of my choice. We were allocated a particular member of staff and he didn't seem to know the whole range. They found another staff member to help but our own staff member was responsible for us and was involved with us through to purchase.

Try it as much as you can. There is a tarmac path outside with a dropped pavement. We were able to cross the road ( there is almost no traffic) and try it on the small slightly sloping area of grass if this would be a feature you wanted.

To be honest I was not sure how " approved " this was. We asked to try and they agreed but they were happier with us crossing over to the grass across the road which we did. This was in June/July when the grass was dry.

We didn't buy on our first visit but returned after allowing it all to sink in. There are lots of features to consider as @Kitty described. Last year we bought a new scooter (not from wheelfreedom) but almost immediately knew it was wrong. Holding out my arms was awful for my ME but wouldn't be a problem for others. An expensive mistake.

This time I am thrilled with our choice of chair.

 

[Shadrach Loom]

I bought a wheelchair from Wheelfreedom in the summer.

Be prepared to look independently. They seemed very keen for me to try a particular model which I quickly knew was not for me. I had to be persistent in pursuing my own choice, maybe because the staff member we were dealing with struggled in erecting the chair of my choice. We were allocated a particular member of staff and he didn't seem to know the whole range. They found another staff member to help but our own staff member was responsible for us and was involved with us through to purchase.

Try it as much as you can. There is a tarmac path outside with a dropped pavement. We were able to cross the road ( there is almost no traffic) and try it on the small slightly sloping area of grass if this would be a feature you wanted.

To be honest I was not sure how " approved " this was. We asked to try and they agreed but they were happier with us crossing over to the grass across the road which we did. This was in June/July when the grass was dry.

We didn't buy on our first visit but returned after allowing it all to sink in. There are lots of features to consider as @Kitty described. Last year we bought a new scooter (not from wheelfreedom) but almost immediately knew it was wrong. Holding out my arms was awful for my ME but wouldn't be a problem for others. An expensive mistake.

This time I am thrilled with our choice of chair.

That’s interesting. We discussed our criteria on the phone before booking the appointment (it’s an hour away from us) so to be fair we were rather pushing them to suggest a model, but once they’d settled on a recommendation (Atto Sport) they seemed quite fixated on it. Chimes with your experience.

 

[Kitty]

Be prepared to look independently.

Agree 100%. When I bought my first powerchair I went to the local Disability Living Centre, a charity which had all the equipment for people to test out, but didn't actually sell anything. I would have bought the wrong chair if it hadn't been for them, because I'd never used one before; I understood neither the pros and cons of different designs, nor the necessary compromises all chairs are built around.

Holding out my arms was awful for my ME but wouldn't be a problem for others.

I'm not confident there are many ME patients who wouldn't be affected by this to some degree or other—it's the reason I didn't considered a scooter. What matters is the length of time you need to use it for, and in my case it's often several hours.

Anyone whose arm muscles go weak simply brushing their hair or stirring a pot on the hob might want to consider a powerchair as their first choice, as they support your arms fully. Same goes for anyone with neck or vestibular problems who's looking at buying a full-size scooter, as they give a very bouncy ride due to having sprung suspension and throw your head around all over the place. [ETA: this doesn't apply to small boot scooters.]

An expensive mistake.

Happens so often, which is why it's worth considering buying your first scooter secondhand if money's tight. You might have to replace the batteries on a secondhand purchase, but you can always sell it on if it doesn't work for you without losing a lot of money.

For someone who uses a scooter regularly and for longish periods, I'd rate the chances of happening on the ideal vehicle for their needs first time round, especially if they can't borrow one first, as maybe 50%? It takes all types of weather, all types of location you're likely to visit, and all severities of pain and weakness you experience to learn how well it really suits you. They all have at least one drawback, and probably two or three—that's just the nature of the beast. There's a big gap between a few niggles and it being too painful or exhausting to use at all, though.

 

[obeat]

Which company do you recommend for reliable replacement batteries?

 

[yME]

If you can access the actual batteries you need to be sure you order the same chemistry ie most are sealed lead acid. Looking on RS.com or farnell.com - they do supply the public as one off orders - should give you an idea of price and availability internationally. There has not been much change in size, capacity or connection types for 20 years so you are likely to find the same all be it a different manufacture name. All the details you require will be on the original battery’s. Do change both or all the batteries at the same time keeping with the same type and manufacture. I mean here don’t mix different types or sizes or makes in the final pack. It’s not difficult with spanner’s or push on spade terminals. Take a picture of original setup and tape over each terminal on both old and new battery then copy the plus and minus positions so you end up with the correct polarities. Then charge. I have yet to see new tech of lithium being used but in future it will substantially increase range or reduce the weight all be it with new chargers and battery management required.

 

[Kitty]

Which company do you recommend for reliable replacement batteries?

Before I switched to lithium, I used Tayna Battery in Wales. Fair prices, next day delivery, and the only time I had an issue with one of my pair, they replaced it free and without quibble. To be honest, though, I reckon most battery specialists (I'd never consider buying from a mobility company) will give you a decent deal, as it's a competitive market.

As usual, you get what you pay for. I bought MK gel for one of my chairs, then when I switched to my current one, Odyssey was the best option—both really good quality. I had to buy cheap batteries once because I was broke, and they lasted 10 months!

In the end it comes down to how much you use them and what you can afford—if you're a really light user, going for the best option might save you less than it would me. Discharging lead acid batteries deeply on a regular basis shortens the lifespan, and I do long trips over rough ground, often in the freezing cold. That was one of my reasons for changing to lithium, the others being major increases in range and battery lifespan.

 

[Kitty]

A final recommendation for regular mobility users: consider getting a smart charger as soon as you can afford one. Batteries need to be kept in balance, and scooters and wheelchairs are supplied with the cheapest possible options, which can't do this. If you start out with a pair that aren't balanced, a basic charger will keep them out of balance for all the time you have them, which will limit the performance.

Nor will it switch off when the batteries reach the optimum state of charge, nor will it tell you their current state with any reliability. They seem expensive at the outset, but save money in the long term. You'll need to understand which type and which connectors you need, but there's lots of info online (I've found the specialist battery companies that sell them incredibly helpful).

 

[yME]

Just to add to Kitty’s excellent points, Lithium does not charge below freezing or more accurately the battery management circuit should not allow them to charge. So if the battery is outside at night in a shed or landing this may be a problem. Also low temperatures of 5 degrees or less reduces the apparent capacity. This recovers with the temperature so not permanent. Lithium is certainly the way to go if you can afford the initial cost and temperature is not an issue. But it is not a direct replacement for older lead acid type cells.

 

[Ash]

Thanks all you lovely people!
I really need to hear this information. I had some questions already in my mind and answers here have helped clarify but also stuff I’d never thought of like how to balance batteries etc thanks @Kitty and @yME!

 

[Kitty]

Also low temperatures of 5 degrees or less reduces the apparent capacity.

It also drains a lead acid battery that on a mild day would keep your wheelie going for six hours, in less than two! None of the options are all that keen on the cold.

I've found, though, that lithium batteries standing idle in my van will only lose about 2 – 3% of their charge over a week when the nighttime temperature is dropping to freezing. I can still go out birding without charging up, because my mate and I run out of energy long before the batteries do. Lead always drained more in the same conditions, and given that they also don't last as long on a cold day, I've never dared go out without a full charge first.

You're right that they're a different beastie, though, specially as lead drains on a fairly gradual curve, whereas with lithium the voltage declines minimally and then drops off a cliff. It shouldn't be an issue with mine, but I still have an alarm to alert me if any of the cells drops below a certain level. I'd be more concerned if I had a chair or scooter with a pack that would be close to its capacity at the end of a trip, as that wouldn't give you much reserve for things going wrong with your plans. But then again, that can happen with any battery, and usually does at some point.

I've had more than a few comical moments, but seeing my wheelchair removed from the entrance to Marks & Sparks on the articulated trailer of a low loader designed to recover broken-down lorries will take some beating! Unfortunately it happened before mobile phones had cameras...

 

[obeat]

@Kitty . Thanks