Ketogenic diet

Ryan31337 said:
I see avocado listed as high histamine but it's never been a problem for me. Perhaps it's high relative to other fruit and veg but nothing compared to meats, fermented foods etc. I also tend to eat them when they're still a little firm and not too ripe, which probably helps.

The yoghurt has been a bit trickier. First off there is only one brand that doesn't normally upset me (Coyo), other brands reliably cause problems. Also when going through periods of heightened intolerance, even Coyo has caused reactions, but thankfully not regularly now.

I'm still very sensitive to other high histamine foods, can't slow cook or eat left overs, meat on the bone and pork is also often problematic. But the day to day reactions i was constantly getting despite avoiding all those have really died down since taking a DAO supplement and methylated multivitamin/nutrient.
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Thanks for the info! Yes I’m going through my own high reactivity phase at the moment, it’s like crashing around from meal to meal :o. Thanks for the tips!
 
@adambeyoncelowe I gather from your post that you are or have been on a keto diet. Do you want to share your experience - has it helped?

And a general question for anyone - everyone keeps saying you will lose weight on it. I want to lose 1 or 2 kg max. My BMI is already in the low normal range. I definitely shouldn't lose more than that.

Can one be on a keto diet and maintain a steady weight? I assume so, since weight gain and loss in the end comes down to calories consumed and expended. I understand weight loss on keto being due to fats taking longer than carbs to digest, so you feel fuller for longer, so are less likely to over eat.
 
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Sasha said:
Is the idea to stay on a ketogenic diet in the long-term?

I'm surprised no one has measured its safety beyond 24 weeks (that's not what I would call 'long term', especially if people are on it for years).
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It has. That was just the first study I found.

Here's a longer study, looking at children with epilepsy (note that children are still growing, so the size issue probably doesn't happen for adults, although fractures would be a risk factor for our population): https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/17109786/

And another: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1059131111001683

It's considered safe, so long as you watch out for fractures, kidney stones and low growth in children. My own experience has been positive. It's definitely reduced some of my low energy swings and the mood dips they brought with them (I'm not diabetic). My energy feels more consistent.

That said, I'm not sure people need to do keto over the very long term. A lot of the benefits seem to persist in epilepsy, so it's possible that a 6-12 month stint might reset enough aberrant metabolism that you could then go onto a less severe diet afterwards.

You'd probably need to avoid a very carb-rich diet, though, unless you wanted to undo the good work. But paleo or just low-carb (under 30% of total calories) might work. You'd probably have to experiment somewhat.
 
@Trish I lost about half a stone over the first few weeks. (I started in April) I’d have liked to loose another few pounds, but heigh-ho at least now my weight is stable. And easily stable. I never found it easy to maintain my weight when I are carbs.

Actually, I’d like to be the weight I was in my current profile pic, I’m still about 10lbs above the weight I was then. LOL
 
interesting how perceptions change - when I initially read about paleo etc in Dr Myhills website 2 1/2 years ago I thought you must be joking and couldnt envisage it

since then last year i cut out white and beige carbs last year and that has become my new normal

from where I am now paleo/keto dont look so radical

ive got a refurb project on the go at the moment so its not practical to try to make changes

but I think I need to try reducing carbs further in a couple of months time to see how I get on I also really need to see if I can do longer than 16hours fasting
 
Fasting helped me last year. I tried various fast durations, and during them only drank water, coffee (with splash of milk) and electrolytes. In the end I did 2 x 36hr fasts most weeks! But when I started keto, I paused the longer fasts. I still don’t usually eat before midday, nor after 8pm, and sometimes go to 20 hours, because I find if I am to be active, I do WAY better on an empty stomach.

I did paleo a few years ago, & it didn’t give me anything like the effect of fasting or low carb. Also I seriously missed milk products. I returned to eating dairy after 5 months and had no adverse effects. Not the same with gluten! I’ve been gluten free for over 5 years now. Made the mistake of “checking” a few days ago as I so wanted a wee taste of some lovely fried black pudding that a family member bought. My gut is still complaining. So I won’t be doing that again in a hurry!
 
adambeyoncelowe said:
@Trish, it seems to be relatively safe long-term: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2716748/

You need to watch your electrolytes (especially potassium to avoid kidney stones) and keep hydrated, but your cholesterol should get better and you should lose wait. When I relied too much on dairy, my cholesterol and blood pressure went up. When I instead introduced more coconut oil and used small amounts of soya lecithin (which reduces cholesterol), those numbers went right back down again.

Good oils are always preferable to other types of fat, and that includes cold olive oil and coconut oil for cooking.
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In the Objective section of your link it says :

OBJECTIVE:
To determine the effects of a 24-week ketogenic diet (consisting of 30 g carbohydrate, 1 g/kg body weight protein, 20% saturated fat, and 80% polyunsaturated and monounsaturated fat) in obese patients.
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I would ignore a diet paper from 2004 on the breakdown of saturated and unsaturated fats that one should eat. Saturated fats are not the demons they have been painted as for the last few decades. See this link on the subject :

https://drmalcolmkendrick.org/2018/...t-cannot-raise-cholesterol-levels-ldl-levels/

1 g/kg body weight protein
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Does anyone know if that is healthy body weight? Or body weight as it currently is?
 
Arnie Pye said:
In the Objective section of your link it says :



I would ignore a diet paper from 2004 on the breakdown of saturated and unsaturated fats that one should eat. Saturated fats are not the demons they have been painted as for the last few decades. See this link on the subject :

https://drmalcolmkendrick.org/2018/...t-cannot-raise-cholesterol-levels-ldl-levels/



Does anyone know if that is healthy body weight? Or body weight as it currently is?
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I think it's body weight as it currently is for protein.

Yeah, I missed the bit about saturated fats. I have no problem with those.
 
Trish said:
And a general question for anyone - everyone keeps saying you will lose weight on it. I want to lose 1 or 2 kg max. My BMI is already in the low normal range. I definitely shouldn't lose more than that.

Can one be on a keto diet and maintain a steady weight? I assume so, since weight gain and loss in the end comes down to calories consumed and expended. I understand weight loss on keto being due to fats taking longer than carbs to digest, so you feel fuller for longer, so are less likely to over eat.
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You can do all the above. See the keto macro calculator link I posted, plus any app you might use will have the same thing to set your goals.
 
Arnie Pye said:
Does anyone know if that is healthy body weight? Or body weight as it currently is?
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I think it depends on what your weight is. If you weigh 250 lbs definitely shouldn’t eat 250g protein per day.

In some of my earlier thread replies I stated that keto sites generally state slightly different things about consuming adequate protein. Some say:

1. Standard keto macro breakdown of 75% fats, 20% protein, 5% net carbs
2. Protein 1 g per kg of body weight
3. Protein 1 g per kg of lean body weight (body weight * (1 - body fat %/100))

I personally think it’s best to just start with the standard ketogenic diet and let a keto calculator (in an app or online) set your goals for you after you fill out all the parameters.

Then after doing the fast and starting the diet it’s crucial to do accurate glucose and ketone blood monitoring and determine your GKI fairly often. This will tell you if you are doing it right for your body or not.

In general, if you haven’t tried this diet yet don’t overthink it up front, especially while having ME. In the state I have been this summer if I overthought everything I would’ve never done it.
 
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Nathalie Wright said:
I'm considering giving this a go but I'm worried it'll be really expensive? For people who do it, is it much more expensive than a standard diet?
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Not really. Myhill has a handy shopping list for people with restricted energy here: http://www.drmyhill.co.uk/wiki/Keto...ation_or_cooking.29_for_the_severely_disabled

Some things are very cheap, others not so much. Lidl has cheap 95% pork sausages, linseed, coconut oil, etc, which are all great.

Oh, and one thing I only learned recently: US labels don't show net carbs, but UK ones do (so you shouldn't deduct fibre again from the carb content). I was doing that and having three times more carbs than I realised!
 
adambeyoncelowe said:
You'd probably need to avoid a very carb-rich diet, though, unless you wanted to undo the good work. But paleo or just low-carb (under 30% of total calories) might work. You'd probably have to experiment somewhat.
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This was what I did. For about a year I did as low-carb as I possibly could without being on traditional keto diet. I ate no fruit, no added sugar, no breads or carbs. Now I'm on a slightly more relaxed diet.

But I'm considering going back, after reading this thread!
 
adambeyoncelowe said:
Lidl has cheap 95% pork sausages
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no good for me as I'm a vegetarian, and before anyone says 'soya', I also have the issue with oxylates,
my digestion cannot handle quorn (fungus based), and pulses are no good for low-carb. I currently weigh around 114lbs (having put on a few pounds since last year) and I'm 5'6"............so in the words of the Dragons, I'm out.:emoji_carrot:
 
Sly Saint said:
no good for me as I'm a vegetarian, and before anyone says 'soya', I also have the issue with oxylates,
my digestion cannot handle quorn (fungus based), and pulses are no good for low-carb. I currently weigh around 114lbs (having put on a few pounds since last year) and I'm 5'6"............so in the words of the Dragons, I'm out.:emoji_carrot:
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Yes, that's probably wise. Nuts can work, but you'd be cutting out so much I don't think it's possible.
 
I tried the Palio diet for a couple of months about 15 years ago with no change.

I’d be willing to go full Keto, especially if it only had to be strict for a year. However it would be a lot more work than my current diet so I’d rather see more research on it for ME/CFS before I committed.

I’m glad it’s helping some people though.
 
For those vegans and vegetarians following this, you can actually do a vegan or vegetarian ketogenic diet. Please look on the web and you will find a trove of information on this.

Realistically yes I understand it would make an already somewhat restricted diet more restricted, but just wanted to put it out there that it is generally feasible.
 
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