HPV vaccination and risk of ME/CFS

[Snow Leopard]

That would mean that one in every few hundred people having a vaccination is unwittingly also incubating an infection, and is going to have a fever and flu-like few days following their vaccination, and may attribute it wrongly to a vaccine reaction, when it is actually an infection.

I had neither a fever or typical viral-like illness - just rapid onset severe fatigue and severe weakness in my lower limbs.

 

[alex3619]

It was interesting in our recent poll of what triggered people's ME, several people who had a series of things that may have contributed to their ME onset and weren't sure which one was the trigger, mentioned vaccinations as part of the picture along with several infections. It's hard to sort out what caused what a lot of the time.

To make things worse, its entirely possible its the cumulative impact that leads to ME, and that none of these things are specifically responsible, for at least some patients. These kinds of confounds are very hard to tease out of data. Studies need to be specifically designed to find these things. We have lacked decent epidemiology in ME and CFS since the beginning, despite numerous calls for funding. Instead what we got were endless rounds of prevalence surveys, using different definitions.

 

[Mij]

Since I had my Hep B vaccines during the same time period as my classmates, I can say that 2 people got sick soon after. One person had to take one week off classes while the other had severe stomach issues. They recovered. My reaction soon (a few days) after the second jab was loss of stamina and gut issues. I never recovered, my anti-thyroid antibodies shot up and the initial viral onset vertigo struck back again.

 

[Daisybell]

I don’t see how it can be wise to give multiple vaccinations at the same time.. I’m not anti-vaccination but if you are asking for an immune response, surely it has to be sensible to be cautious - and that means one thing at a time. That’s my beef with the MMR..

Do we know that vaccinations at puberty are as risk-free as at other ages?

 

[Trish]

I had neither a fever or typical viral-like illness - just rapid onset severe fatigue and severe weakness in my lower limbs.

Thanks, @Snow Leopard, I hope you didn't think I was suggesting post vaccination ME onset could be explained away as a coinciding infection. I was just making a general point about some apparent post vaccine reactions of the temporary flu like sort might be an infection. I was not trying to deny the reality of your experience.

 

[Lucibee]

TWiV have just done an episode on this very topic... http://www.microbe.tv/twiv/twiv-496/

Good discussion of the issues, including safety, adverse reactions etc.

 

[Snow Leopard]

I don’t see how it can be wise to give multiple vaccinations at the same time.. I’m not anti-vaccination but if you are asking for an immune response, surely it has to be sensible to be cautious - and that means one thing at a time. That’s my beef with the MMR..

A vaccine for multiple viruses in the same needle is likely to be safer than vaccines for those same viruses administered at separate times. Each one is a new independent event to stimulate the immune system (especially so if adjuvants are involved).

Do we know that vaccinations at puberty are as risk-free as at other ages?

My opinion after reviewing the data on autoimmune consequences after vaccine administration is that puberty is riskier than early childhood. The events are still rare, but they are extremely rare in early childhood.

 

[Amw66]

From new thread on PR

 

[andypants]

After 10 years of free HPV vaccines for young girls in Norway, it was reported earlier this week that the number of cervical cancer cases have been significantly reduced. Should have a link, but can’t manage right now.

Has nothing to do with ME-risk, but it certainly is an argument in favor of the vaccine.

 

[Dolphin]

Probably not important, but I rarely come across CFS being mentioned so prominently

The vaccine does not cause chronic fatigue syndrome

Current evidence does not support any association between HPV vaccine and chronic fatigue. In 2013, the MHRA conducted a large study in the UK which showed no link between HPV vaccine and illnesses such as chronic fatigue syndrome (CFS) and fibromyalgia. Since then, population-based studies in Finland, Norway and The Netherlands have similarly found no evidence of an association. CFS does occur naturally in adolescence, and the evidence from these studies, and more than 10 years of use, would suggest that reports of CFS following HPV vaccine are coincidental.

https://assets.publishing.service.g...PHE_HPV_healthcare_professional_factsheet.pdf
https://www.woodcotehigh.com/wp-con...PV-Vaccination-Programme-Information-2020.pdf

 

[Sly Saint]

Digital Public Defence: Berit Feiring
Cand.pharm Berit Feiring at Institute of Health and Society will be defending the thesis “HPV vaccination in Norway: Uptake, safety and effectiveness” for the degree of PhD (Philosophiae Doctor).

Time and place: May 6, 2020 11:15 AM, Zoom

The University of Oslo is closed and the public defence will be held as a video conference over Zoom.

The defence will follow regular procedure as far as possible, hence it will be open to the public and the audience can ask ex auditorio questions when invited to do so.

Summary
Infection with human papillomavirus (HPV) is a necessary cause of cervical cancer. HPV vaccine was implemented in the childhood immunisation programme in Norway in 2009 targeting 12-year-old girls through school-based vaccination.

The overall aim of this thesis was to evaluate the HPV immunisation programme. The specific aims were to explore socioeconomic determinants for HPV vaccine uptake, vaccine safety with regard to risk of chronic fatigue syndrome/myalgic encephalomyelitis (CFS/ME), establish baseline data of HPV burden in pre-screening, unvaccinated birth cohorts and estimate the population effectiveness of the HPV immunisation programme.

We used data from nationwide registries, collected urine samples from more than 19 000 young Norwegian women through repeated cross-sectional studies, analysed the samples for 37 HPV genotypes and performed statistical analyses.

During the first three programme years, HPV vaccine uptake was 78%. Despite presumably equal access to HPV vaccine, the uptake increased with increasing maternal income, while it decreased with increasing maternal education level.

No increased risk of CFS/ME was observed in girls who received the HPV vaccine as compared to unvaccinated girls.

full details here
https://www.med.uio.no/helsam/engli.../disputations/2020/berit-feiring-digital.html

 

[Dolphin]

Digital Public Defence: Berit Feiring
Cand.pharm Berit Feiring at Institute of Health and Society will be defending the thesis “HPV vaccination in Norway: Uptake, safety and effectiveness” for the degree of PhD (Philosophiae Doctor).

Time and place: May 6, 2020 11:15 AM, Zoom




full details here
https://www.med.uio.no/helsam/engli.../disputations/2020/berit-feiring-digital.html

Vaccine. 2017 Jul 24;35(33):4203-4212. doi: 10.1016/j.vaccine.2017.06.031. Epub 2017 Jun 23.
HPV vaccination and risk of chronic fatigue syndrome/myalgic encephalomyelitis: A nationwide register-based study from Norway.
Feiring B1, Laake I2, Bakken IJ3, Greve-Isdahl M4, Wyller VB5, Håberg SE6, Magnus P7, Trogstad L8.
Author information

Abstract
BACKGROUND:
Vaccination has been suggested to be involved in the aetiology of chronic fatigue syndrome/myalgic encephalomyelitis (CFS/ME). HPV vaccine was introduced in the Norwegian Childhood Immunisation Programme and offered 12year old girls from 2009. We studied the association between HPV vaccination and risk of CFS/ME and also assessed medical history in relation to both risk of CFS/ME and HPV vaccine uptake.

METHODS:
Individual data from national registries, including the Norwegian Population Registry, the Norwegian Patient Registry and the Norwegian Immunisation Registry were linked using the unique personal identification number. Yearly incidence rates of CFS/ME for 2009-2014 were calculated among the 824,133 boys and girls, aged 10-17 living in Norway during these 6years. A total of 176,453 girls born 1997-2002 were eligible for HPV vaccination and included in further analyses. Hazard ratios (HRs) of CFS/ME were estimated using Cox regression. Risk differences (RDs) of vaccine uptake were estimated with binomial regression.

RESULTS:
A similar yearly increase in incidence rate of CFS/ME was observed among girls and boys, IRR=1.15 (95% confidence interval (CI) 1.10-1.19) and 1.15 (95% CI 1.09-1.22), respectively. HPV vaccination was not associated with CFS/ME, HR=0.86 (95% CI 0.69-1.08) for the entire follow-up period and 0.96 (95% CI 0.64-1.43) for the first two years after vaccination. The risk of CFS/ME increased with increasing number of previous hospital contacts, HR=5.23 (95% CI 3.66-7.49) for 7 or more contacts as compared to no contacts. Girls with 7 or more hospital contacts were less likely to be vaccinated than girls with no previous hospital contacts, RD=-5.5% (95% CI -6.7% to -4.2%).

CONCLUSIONS:
No indication of increased risk of CFS/ME following HPV vaccination was observed among girls in the first 6 birth cohorts offered HPV vaccine through the national immunisation programme in Norway.

 

[lunarainbows]

I was told by my immunologist, vaccine alright if I have stabilized, and then a vaccine without adjuvants and no living parts (sorry, english). No multiple vaccination.

Is there such a way to get such a vaccine in the UK? I don’t know what it was that over stimulates my immune system - do flu vaccines have adjuvants? Sorry to be off topic.

I have recently been quite worried about the coronavirus vaccine. I know I would need it to keep me safe. However it is in my medical notes that I have had severe relapses and adverse reactions after vaccination, 2 times with flu vaccine since I became ill with ME. The last time, I got hives all over my body, became feverish and very unwell, severe relapse from which I still haven’t gone back to pre-vaccine levels (which was still severe but not as bad as now - I was walking quite a few steps before the relapse).

Ive not had proper advice as to what I should/could do about future vaccines.

 

[Woolie]

Is there such a way to get such a vaccine in the UK? I don’t know what it was that over stimulates my immune system - do flu vaccines have adjuvants? Sorry to be off topic.

I have recently been quite worried about the coronavirus vaccine. I know I would need it to keep me safe. However it is in my medical notes that I have had severe relapses and adverse reactions after vaccination, 2 times with flu vaccine since I became ill with ME. The last time, I got hives all over my body, became feverish and very unwell, severe relapse from which I still haven’t gone back to pre-vaccine levels (which was still severe but not as bad as now - I was walking quite a few steps before the relapse).

Ive not had proper advice as to what I should/could do about future vaccines.

I agree, @lunarainbows. I'm also very reactive to vaccines: I was given a "vaccine challenge" by an immunologist a few years ago, and my bloods showed a massively abnormal inflammatory response to it (extremely high CRP levels, ESR and something called Serum Amyloid). For this reason, I can't have the flu jab, so I have to make sure people close to me all get it "on my behalf". I ask my teenage kids to get it too, so they can act as a buffer.

For me, the risk of getting the virus would have to be reasonable (at least non-negligible) to justify the hit I would have to take by having the vaccine.

Of course, you have to take into account that, when a vaccine does become available, that will change the population-wide COVID landscape quite significantly, the risk of catching the virus is likely to down steeply.

 

[rvallee]

Meanwhile, the evidence for stress/anxiety/fear/whatever being the cause of chronic illness: "uh, why not? like, can you prove that it's not?"

Pretty much literally. This double standard is infuriating.

 

[Arnie Pye]

Suppose someone has an excruciating illness of some kind and it isn't curable or easily diagnosed, then surely stress (from being in pain) and/or anxiety (will the pain get worse? will I get any help?) and/or fear (if I don't get cured there is nothing to stop the pain from getting worse) will go up. This is likely to raise cortisol, one of the stress hormones.

Suppose a child is abused, physically, emotionally, mentally - their cortisol levels will rise too.

Suppose someone is severely iron deficient. It causes all sorts of symptoms that will make life more difficult and hence more stressful. Cortisol levels might rise as a result.

Suppose someone gets flu and recovers without any lingering problems. I'm not sure what their cortisol levels would do, but they would almost certainly revert to normal after recovery.

The problem with stress/anxiety/fear is that they can develop from all sorts of causes that might not be easily cured, or diagnosed, or brought to an end. But doctors and therapists usually only believe in one possible cause - mental illness. So people are likely to be offered CBT and anti-depressants.

CBT and anti-depressants don't actually stop child abuse, nor do they repair an iron deficiency.

Excruciating illness which is difficult to diagnose and/or for which there is no cure is not likely to be helped by CBT and anti-depressants either - ask anyone who develops ME.