Henrik Vogt: IOM review panel biased by patient influence

Its ironic that he doesn't understand that the burden of proof is on the person making the claim, therefore if someone makes a claim of cause or even joint cause its down to them to prove it. If something is psychological or partly psychological by default or "lack of organic proof of disease", firstly that's not evidence based and secondly what is the objective replicated proof it is psychological.

The BPS crowd have had over 3 decades to try to prove it is psychological and have failed dismally.

Apart from all of that Vogt seems to miss the central argument, PACE is crap and there is no defense of it being put forward even by the trial investigators themselves!
 
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Indigophoton said:
I feel for him that he suffered, but this does go some way to explaining the problem he has with us: he catastrophized, so he thinks everyone else is doing the same.
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I'm not sure what he claims his issue was because the translation wasn't too clear, but something about having tinnitus in his youth?...and?....tinnitus can come and go, can be very bad and is part of inner ear problems, so whats his actual point?
 
Kalliope said:
Yes, he has tinnitus. It got better after he worked with himself and no longer focused too much on it.
Voila - a one-size-fits-all-cure was born.
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He got "better", hmmm...is he objectively cured and if he is whats the proof the tinnitus disappeared because of what he did?

Or maybe he is pacing, adapting to have to live with it, dealing with it etc.

Sounds like in his youth when he got tinnitus he was worried about some stupid psychs declaring him mentally ill, how ironic.
 
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First time I read his story - when he presented his patient organisation Recovery Norge - he had recovered from his tinnitus, but later - in the interview in the Journal of the Norwegian Medical Association - he said he had gotten better.

Same with some of the recovery stories shared through Recovery Norge. Claims of full recovery when "improvement" would be more accurate.

The patient organisation Recovery Norge (primarily a Facebook page) surfaced a few days after the Norwegian consumer ombudsman made it illegal to share recovery stories by people selling alternative therapies. The LP coach Live Landmark had to delete the stories she had shared, but is now sharing the same stories via Recovery Norge. The timing of this patient organisation after the new rules from the consumer ombudsman was completely coincidental, of course. The consumer ombudsman have apparently no power or interest regarding stories of recoveries from undocumented treatments when shared from a patient organisation, even though LP coach Live Landmark was one of the funders.
 
Well I developed tinnitus aged 5 after having tonsils and adenoids out.

My mum used to tell me off because she found me wandering round the house in the middle of the night trying to find what was making the noise.

I learned to cope quite quickly. Certainly by the time I was a teen I kinda assumed it was normal.

Decades later I still got ME.

Learning to live with tinnitus doesn't make you special, mate. Lots of people have to. Not getting ME just makes you lucky in my eyes. Nothing to do with how you coped with your tinnitus at all.
 
BruceInOz said:
@large donner He doesn't say the tinnitus went away. I think @Indigophoton is right - he was catastophizing so thinks everyone does.
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Isn't catastrophizing supposed to apply only to fictitious illness?

He is a very difficult person to work out.

Actually, I think I've got it, he has zero understanding of any part of the debate on ME, hasn't read the PACE trial or the reanalysis and he is just talking off the top of his head making up his own third way argument to dispute with himself over an angle that doesn't even exist.

Oh, and LP can cure stuff!
 
How did I get well? On the phone directory's Yellow Pages, I highlighted "tinnitus". When I found a name on my own address, I wondered if I had become psychotic. But the only one who ran with this, Atle Rønning Arnesen, actually lived in the floor below me. I slipped into the slippers and hit a wise man.One conversation was enough. He demolished the problem, and then he said, "Start for God's sake to listen to music again!". It's basics to make the brain change focus and turn a vicious circle of fear and increasing symptom focus.
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Well, it's good to see that his views are unbiased by personal experience, unlike like some of those pesky members of the IOM panel. :rolleyes:

 
Indigophoton said:
All the time I thought "Is the sound there now?", "Is that the sound from the dishwasher or from my ear?". I got disaster thoughts. The perfectionist in me said that "you can not live a life with an imperfect body."
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I feel for him that he suffered, but this does go some way to explaining the problem he has with us: he catastrophized, so he thinks everyone else is doing the same.
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I fear this patient is suffering a terminal case of projection.
 
Indigophoton said:
Vogt is now declaring the IOM panel to have been biased by patient input:
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Again Henrik Vogt at being disgusting. I start to imagine seeing him in "Desperate Housewives". (This is not meant to be sexistic. In my opinion, "Desperate Housewives", like comparable TV series, e.g. "The Bold and the Beautiful", are about people who don't know what to do with their time and therefore spend it with intrigues&Co.)
 
Jonathan Edwards said:
I think Dr Vogt may be worried that scientists can actually see inside his brain and see how hot it is. Moreover, they can do it through cookies on his cellphone without him even knowing. All the scientists in California are giggling over all the strange temperature spots in his brain. No wonder he is paranoid.
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:jawdrop::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:
Oh that did make me laugh @Jonathan Edwards, i needed that tonight, thank you:D


But HV's tweet itself is comical too, it's absurd - can he not hear himself, he's doing a Sharpe, unwittingly tweeting things about himself/his fellow BPSers.

"Ignorance and arrogance go hand in hand. There is always a group of psychiatrists/psychologists with narrow expertise who simply assume they can just "solve" problems like #mecfs that medicine has struggled with and clinicians know to be complex. Like their tools work for anything"
 
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