Gulf war syndrome vs "ME/CFS"

[InfiniteRubix]

All

Having skimmed over contents over the past week, I can't see substantive difference between gulf war syndrome sufferers and being a pwME. I asked this due to its public policy and liability implications.

Can anyone explain how gulf war syndrome is distinct from ME/CFS?

I accept that there may be different cohorts who would have alternative diagnoses and that there is even more vaguary than our own diagnostic criteria, but I guess you see where I'm coming from...

Thanks all, been a while

 

[Cinders66]

I don’t want to offend anyone if I’m wrong on this but
I have not heard of very severely affected GWS patients, they seem to be more at the walking wounded level, so that would be one difference.

 

[InfiniteRubix]

Very important if true. On the other hand, I'd also wonder whether there are any epidemiological papers that break down problems in prevalence measurements in veteran communities, given that they are habitually let down in society and fall off the grid. Such epidemiological evidence would be proof of nothing, except for adding a known unknown

 

[Mij]

I was of the impression that GWS resembles MCS syndrome?

Do GWS patients experience PEM?

 

[InfiniteRubix]

At least axiomatically, ME and MCAS seem.to have a relationship, at the very minimum they have shared comorbidities in common methinks. I've never seen so many MCAS conversations before encountering ME tbh.

Yes, at least some do get PEM according to the literature.

NB I'd also imagine the Oxford school BPS Wessley types would be just as uninclined to account for PEM properly in GWS, as in the case of pwME. And even less in their/others' interests in the case of GWS perhaps.

 

[adambeyoncelowe]

They may have different brain chemistry: https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2017/11/171110084312.htm

 

[Trish]

Nancy Klimas is researching both GWS and ME/CFS and says they have distinct biomedical differences. I'm sorry I can't find more about this. Someone else will probably be able to link you to her talking about it.

 

[Ravn]

I think it was Alain Moreau who compared some blood markers (microRNA?) in ME/CFS and GWS and found the pattern to be opposite, elevated in GWS and suppressed in ME/CFS.

It may have been in this video but can't be sure and not able to rewatch right now, maybe somebody else here has better recall:

https://mecfsconference.org.au/videos/alain-moreau/

 

[InfiniteRubix]

Many thanks indeed all

 

[rvallee]

Two links I have bookmarked:

Exercise–induced changes in cerebrospinal fluid miRNAs in Gulf War Illness, Chronic Fatigue Syndrome and sedentary control subjects: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-017-15383-9

Brain chemistry study shows chronic fatigue syndrome, Gulf War illness as unique disorders: https://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2017-11/gumc-bcs110817.php

The 2nd link is commentary on the first one.

 

[InfiniteRubix]

Muchos gracias.

So the only unifying features are merely personalities, economics and politics

 

[adambeyoncelowe]

Muchos gracias.

So the only unifying features are merely personalities, economics and politics

The symptoms do appear to have a lot of overlap. GWI seems to have some kind of PEM, for example, but it seems to be different to our PEM somehow.

I read something once about the different phenotypes of GWI being due to injury in different parts of the brain (e.g., brain stem alone, brain stem with another area, etc). It may be that the difference is due to where in the brain the illness comes from.

 

[chrisb]

It must be a great relief to sufferers from GWS that the original "research" establishing the psychosomatic cause of perpetuation of such symptoms was funded by the Army Chemical Corps.

 

[rvallee]

Muchos gracias.

So the only unifying features are merely personalities, economics and politics

Kinda. Just that it applies to those sabotaging both diseases, not their victims.

 

[InfiniteRubix]

The symptoms do appear to have a lot of overlap. GWI seems to have some kind of PEM, for example, but it seems to be different to our PEM somehow.

I read something once about the different phenotypes of GWI being due to injury in different parts of the brain (e.g., brain stem alone, brain stem with another area, etc). It may be that the difference is due to where in the brain the illness comes from.

Thank you - very helpful.

I do wonder how the PEM differs qualitatively/subjectively, but now that is merely my curiosity rambling. Pointless curiosity now my real Q is answered by the thread

 

[junkcrap50]

All

Having skimmed over contents over the past week, I can't see substantive difference between gulf war syndrome sufferers and being a pwME. I asked this due to its public policy and liability implications.

Can anyone explain how gulf war syndrome is distinct from ME/CFS?

I accept that there may be different cohorts who would have alternative diagnoses and that there is even more vaguary than our own diagnostic criteria, but I guess you see where I'm coming from...

Thanks all, been a while

See this video. About 11:45 she talks about the differences.
https://forums.phoenixrising.me/threads/discovery-forum-2017-dr-nancy-klimas.61154/

 

[Sly Saint]

5.4.
General Health
With regard to health in general, in 2006 King’s College London (KCL) reported an increase in hypotension in ill Gulf veterans compared with healthy Gulf veterans. They also found that these veterans were more likely to be “overweight, and had higher levels of a particular enzyme (gamma GT) which is associated with alcohol intake, but is also a marker for obesity” (KCL, 2006).
More broadly they reported:
“It is possible that all of these reflect the influence of problems such as fatigue and lack of exercise, which may be part of a vicious circle of ill health, fatigue, lack of exercise, and hence increased weight, leading to more fatigue and even less exercise.”

There is as yet no single, definitive, explanation for what has been observed. It is my opinion that this is unlikely to change with the passage of time, and that the delay in commencing serious scientific study of the problems has meant that any chances that once existed of providing better answers on aetiology have probably vanished.”
(Wessley, 2006)

However, the MRC did recommend in their report that “research aimed at improving the long-term health of GVs with persistent symptoms should take priority” over any other recommended work.

Rehabilitation
Professor Simon Wessley, Co-Director of Kings College Centre for Military Health Research, said in a press release dated 24 March 2006:
“An enormous amount of money and effort have been expended on understanding Gulf War Illnesses worldwide. These reviews make it clear that there is no single cause, rather there are a range of factors likely to be responsible. I believe there is little value in conducting further research into the causes. We should now focus our resources on rehabilitating those people
who are ill as a result of Service in the Gulf War.”

Symptoms and general health The US carried out a study which medically examined 1,061 Gulf veterans and 1,128 non-deployed veterans for 12 different medical conditions – these were fibromyalgia, Chronic Fatigue Syndrome, dermatologic conditions, dyspepsia, physical health-related quality of life, hypotension, obstructive lung disease, arthralgias, and peripheral neuropathy. Of these, four were more prevalent among Gulf veterans – fibromyalgia, Chronic Fatigue Syndrome, dermatological conditions and dyspepsia (Eisenet al., 2005).

https://www.britishlegion.org.uk/do...war_legacy_of_suspicion.pdf?sfvrsn=d8308cc6_2

eta:
one thing we have in common is a certain knight of the realm and his 'wisdom'

 

[InfiniteRubix]

Thank you