Discriminating Myalgic Encephalomyelitis/Chronic Fatigue Syndrome and comorbid conditions using metabolomics in UK Biobank, 2024, Huang et al

Can @melb and/or @DMissa comment a bit more on how the findings of Huang et al. 2024 link in with those of Missailidis, Armstrong et al. 2026 in simple terms please? (I'm aware team members overlap!)

I see these mentions of Huang 2024 in Missailidis 2026:


I'd like to hear more, in layman's words, of what you think of the Huang 2024 findings in light of Missailidis 2026?
The broad strokes that align are mentioned briefly in the paper but are left there. Didn't want to harp on about it too much because it would just be supposition. Can't make any confident or specific comment without more data. If we have primary cell data linked with biofluid data, collected together from the same people, it may be more possible to draw meaningful relationships between the studies. As it stands, what we have in one study is biofluid data, and in the other study transformed cell lines from a different cohort of people. Much too hard to dig into relationships between them in detail.

We have a couple of collaborative projects that may shed light here. Including a component of Chris's recent big grant :D
 
We absolutely don't want fast track to false positives. But I'd probably prefer an err on side of the earlier recommendation of pacing management. Yes you may get some people being told to pace that don't need to.

Do you think that is a problematic point of view?

I don't find that problematic, I think it's eminently sensible when ME/CFS is suspected.

Thing is, people who're finding activity makes them feel ill will already (consciously or not) have started pacing to some extent. To have a physician endorse that as a reasonable course of action, at least whilst we see what's going on, would be really valuable.

What I'm not sure about is whether we need a test to endorse it as a reasonable course of action for physicians. If a patient's feeling ill and exhausted, advice to avoid overdoing it is just common sense.

Interesting debate, though!
 
The broad strokes that align are mentioned briefly in the paper but are left there. Didn't want to harp on about it too much because it would just be supposition. Can't make any confident or specific comment without more data. If we have primary cell data linked with biofluid data, collected together from the same people, it may be more possible to draw meaningful relationships between the studies. As it stands, what we have in one study is biofluid data, and in the other study transformed cell lines from a different cohort of people. Much too hard to dig into relationships between them in detail.

We have a couple of collaborative projects that may shed light here. Including a component of Chris's recent big grant :D
Well that's good news!

Thank you for not speculating, and for explaining what data you would need to comment.
 
We absolutely don't want fast track to false positives.
But you’re literally saying you want to make the diagnosis faster and more accurate by using the test, and that doctors will learn to trust it because outcome is what matters.

Fatigue is one of the most common complaints at GPs. If the GPs with poor knowledge of ME/CFS (that you said could be helped by this) use your test for all those cases, you’d get an enormous amount of false positives.

Lets say Norwegian GPs perform 100,000 tests a year. That’s <0.6 % of the GP consultations (17.8M in 2024, with 1.2M excess compared to pre-covid expectations, so many will be LC related - study). For comparison, there are ~250,000 vitamin D tests a year for women aged 20-50 alone (source).

If just 1 % of the tests give a false positive for ME/CFS, you’d get 1000 false positives a year. That would make ~1/3 of all ME/CFS diagnoses a year definitive false positives (study on prevalence).

And if the doctors trust the test, the diagnosis might stick for a long time. Especially when most doctors don’t know what ME/CFS looks like, and they haven’t been taught because it isn’t needed because we have a diagnostic test for it..
But I'd probably prefer an err on side of the earlier recommendation of pacing management. Yes you may get some people being told to pace that don't need to.

Do you think that is a problematic point of view?
I don’t mind people being told to pace. But I do mind people being told they have ME/CFS when they don’t, and they might have something treatable instead that will be missed because your test that everyone trusts said so.
 
But you’re literally saying you want to make the diagnosis faster and more accurate by using the test, and that doctors will learn to trust it because outcome is what matters.

Fatigue is one of the most common complaints at GPs. If the GPs with poor knowledge of ME/CFS (that you said could be helped by this) use your test for all those cases, you’d get an enormous amount of false positives.

Lets say Norwegian GPs perform 100,000 tests a year. That’s <0.6 % of the GP consultations (17.8M in 2024, with 1.2M excess compared to pre-covid expectations, so many will be LC related - study). For comparison, there are ~250,000 vitamin D tests a year for women aged 20-50 alone (source).

If just 1 % of the tests give a false positive for ME/CFS, you’d get 1000 false positives a year. That would make ~1/3 of all ME/CFS diagnoses a year definitive false positives (study on prevalence).

And if the doctors trust the test, the diagnosis might stick for a long time. Especially when most doctors don’t know what ME/CFS looks like, and they haven’t been taught because it isn’t needed because we have a diagnostic test for it..

I don’t mind people being told to pace. But I do mind people being told they have ME/CFS when they don’t, and they might have something treatable instead that will be missed because your test that everyone trusts said so.

Understand the concerns, important to consider.

False positives happen with just about every diagnostic tool. I believe there are certain standards to adhere to. Even the current diagnosis path has false positives. As an example, early MS can be misdiagnosed as ME/CFS, a good clinician will still look for follow up tests. The question for us is if the tool generates a net positive in patient care/outcome.

Typically specialists will still look for other explanations. Given that there is no treatment for ME/CFS beyond management, it would be far easier for a clinician to identify another reason for the patient experience.

I suspect a lot of patients, that would have been ME, now get diagnosed with Long COVID unless they are sure the trigger wasn't COVID. Do you see that as a problem?
 
Understand the concerns, important to consider.
What’s currently being done to address them?
False positives happen with just about every diagnostic tool. I believe there are certain standards to adhere to. Even the current diagnosis path has false positives. As an example, early MS can be misdiagnosed as ME/CFS, a good clinician will still look for follow up tests.
As in trusting the AI tests because it’s all about the outcome?

And you must be unaware of the realities of living with ME/CFS if you seriously believe that people with ME/CFS get appropriate checkups by their doctors. An ME/CFS diagnosis is a medical black hole. Everything will be attributed to it, or they’ll think you just believe you’re sick and stop listening.
The question for us is if the tool generates a net positive in patient care/outcome.
Exactly.
Typically specialists will still look for other explanations. Given that there is no treatment for ME/CFS beyond management, it would be far easier for a clinician to identify another reason for the patient experience.
What do you mean by «easier»? What’s easier?
I suspect a lot of patients, that would have been ME, now get diagnosed with Long COVID unless they are sure the trigger wasn't COVID. Do you see that as a problem?
LC isn’t really a diagnosis. I haven’t seen much to indicate that the people that understand that post-covid issues can be biological are unaware of ME/CFS or PEM.
 
What’s currently being done to address them?

As in trusting the AI tests because it’s all about the outcome?

And you must be unaware of the realities of living with ME/CFS if you seriously believe that people with ME/CFS get appropriate checkups by their doctors. An ME/CFS diagnosis is a medical black hole. Everything will be attributed to it, or they’ll think you just believe you’re sick and stop listening.

Exactly.

What do you mean by «easier»? What’s easier?

LC isn’t really a diagnosis. I haven’t seen much to indicate that the people that understand that post-covid issues can be biological are unaware of ME/CFS or PEM.

Currently working on development. Will need to be validated to assess accuracy over multiple cohorts. The accuracy will dictate the value of this algorithm, it may not be useful clinically.

As in standards for accuracy of test.

What did I say that makes you think I believe all ME/CFS patients get appropriate care from clinicians? Sorry, that was not my intention at all. The poor care of ME/CFS is why we are attempting improve diagnosis and GP knowledge. Difficulty of diagnosis is a problem for clinicians but simplifying current criteria creates more false positives.

Easier for clinician to identify treatments for a patient if that patient has a diagnosis with known treatments.

What do you mean LC isn't really a diagnosis?
 
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Currently working on development. Will need to be validated to assess accuracy over multiple cohorts. The accuracy will dictate the value of this algorithm, it may not be useful clinically.

As in standards for accuracy of test.
I’m not sure I understand what the output will be. The AI model will provide a percentage value (as all AI models do)- what does that represent the probability of?
What did I say that makes you think I believe all ME/CFS patients get appropriate care from clinicians? Sorry, that was not my intention at all.
That we have to expect certain standards. It seems like I misunderstood.
The poor care of ME/CFS is why we are attempting improve diagnosis and GP knowledge.
I still don’t understand why you need a test for that.

You can’t get more accurate than applying the criteria, so accuracy can’t be improved.

Looking for alternative explanations to avoid false positives of ME/CFS is a matter of the attitude and competence of the clinician, and can’t be made easier with a test, because you’d have to do the other tests to assess the result of the first one anyways. There is no time saved here.

If you think there is: can you please outline the diagnostic process with and without the test and explain which specific activities that are different?

Improving the knowledge of GPs about what ME/CFS is and how to deal with it can’t be done through developing a test. It can only be done by spreading the knowledge.
Difficulty of diagnosis is a problem for clinicians but simplifying current criteria creates more false positives.
I don’t think anyone have suggested to simplify the criteria.
Easier for clinician to identify treatments for a patient if that patient has a diagnosis with known treatments.
Why does that make it easier for them to identify another explanation for the patients’s experience?
What do you mean LC isn't really a diagnosis?
LC is usually defined as having symptoms ~12 weeks after a covid infection. That tells us nothing of value about what’s wrong with the patient or how to approach it. A patient with a reduced sense of smell would be lumped together with patients with post-ICU complications, very severe ME/CFS, or just slight brainfog. It’s about as useful as the diagnosis «not completely healthy».
 
Problem with Obesity is that people don't often report they have it, some don't see it as a medical condition but as a temporary impact on their physical appearance. But BMI was used to determine it in UK Biobank, we controlled for BMI in the population.
Obesity is typically defined as a BMI over 30. Yes, if you have BMI, you can derive the percentage of people with obesity. There's no need to rely on biobank participants reporting having it.

Can you tell us what the percentages of obesity were in the C2 and ME/CFS cohorts, which was the comparison figure 1 illustrates? The reported BMI medians are not very useful.


The paper says in the Methods section
Logistics regression was used to estimate the odds ratio for biomarker associations with ME/CFS and comorbid cohorts against the C2 cohort. Odds ratios were adjusted for sex, age, cholesterol-lowering medication and fish oil supplements.
I couldn't see any report of controlling for BMI.
 
Obesity is typically defined as a BMI over 30. Yes, if you have BMI, you can derive the percentage of people with obesity. There's no need to rely on biobank participants reporting having it.

Can you tell us what the percentages of obesity were in the C2 and ME/CFS cohorts, which was the comparison figure 1 illustrates? The reported BMI medians are not very useful.


The paper says in the Methods section

I couldn't see any report of controlling for BMI.

You're right, "controlled for" was the wrong word. BMI was looked at in the decomposition analysis. I think BMI difference of 0.8 between healthy and ME/CFS had a maximum of a ~10% boost in the odds ratio of lipids. Take that 10% away and they are still all significant. Represents a relatively small effect.

I'd say the deconditioning and multimorbidity are far bigger factors in the ME/CFS for the lipids than BMI.

We use BMI as a continuous variable. The obesity and overweight cutoffs in BMI are really arbitrary whole numbers. Treating BMI as a continuous variable is better.

We are conducting a follow up analysis of the UK Biobank with more data now provided. Any suggestions on comorbidities or considerations are welcome.

Let me know if you want to see any specific comparisons. Based on discussion here it seems like a multi-morbidity control would be good. What about exertion control (self report only)?
 
Let me know if you want to see any specific comparisons. Based on discussion here it seems like a multi-morbidity control would be good. What about exertion control (self report only)?

Since you asked, I've come back to this to take a closer look. I don't have the capacity to read back over this thread so forgive me if I repeat stuff that's been said already, quite possibly by me. I'm reading back over the paper and picking out bits to ask about.

Baseline characteristics Table 2

The ME/CFS cohort comprised 74% females, consistent with a 3:1 female-to-male ratio previously reported. The preponderance of females was also observed in depression, IBS, hypothyroidism, and migraine cohorts (67%, 67%, 87% and 77%, respectively).

Overall, the ME/CFS cohort exhibited significantly different physical measurements (Bonferroni threshold accounting for the nine groups tested against ME/CFS:P < 5.56 × 10−3). ME/CFS had lower hand-grip strength, an indicator of muscle fatigue, compared to all cohorts except for hypothyroidism. Basal metabolic rate is the energy expenditure at rest and was lower in ME/CFS except when compared to IBS (showed no significant difference) and hypothyroidism and migraine cohorts (which were both lower than ME/CFS). Pulse rate was elevated in ME/CFS.

Looking at the figures in the table, I want to ask whether you took sex imbalance in the different groups into account. For example the hand grip strength would be expected to be higher in groups with more males. If you haven't taken that into account, can you run those calculations again for each sex separately?
Given that you also found differences in lipid profiles between the sexes, would it be better to make separate male and female algorithms? Can this be done?

Metabolomic profile.
There were 168 biomarkers associated with ME/CFS at P < 2.01 × 10−4, with Bonferronithreshold accounting for the number of total metabolites
The median disease duration, between reportedME/CFS onset and theblood sample donation day at the first assessment centre visit was 11.6 years.
To assess potential changes in biomarker concentrations overtime, weperformed another round of association tests on 181 ME/CFS participantswith a disease duration of <2 years (Supplementary Fig. 4). Six biomarkers out of the 168 significant associations remained significant and exhibitedgreater effects (HDL-C, HDL-CE, M-HDL-C, M-HDL-CE, TG by PG andXL-HDL-FC %). The lack of significant associations was most likelyattributed to the reduced sample size (15% of the full ME/CFS cohort),however, the OR estimates remained comparable with the full cohort,especially for lipoproteins,ApoA1 and alanine

Given that you are suggesting your ME/CFS score alogithm is good at predicting ME/CFS and may be able to be used to help diagnosis, how did you take the 2 year people's results into account in designing the algorithm?

ME/CFS biomarker associations are highly pleiotropic
There were 234 pleiotropic biomarkers (those associated with two or more conditions), contributing to a total of 942 associations at P < 6.25 × 10−3 with trait-wise Bonferroni threshold to account for varying sample sizes (Fig. 2,Supplementary Fig. 6). Only XXL-VLDL-TG % was uniquely associated with ME/CFS (Supplementary Fig. 6), with the remaining 196 associations also present in other conditions. Hypertension associations exhibited 81% similarity with ME/CFS associations, depression (85%), asthma (73%), IBS (97%), hay fever (46%), hypothyroidism (88%) and migraine (89%).

Doesn't this make it essential that the comparitor group for developing an algorithm needs to take into account that the ME/CFS group have multiple co-morbidities, whereas the other groups are selected specifically for not having any co-morbidities?
I agree with the suggestion that the comparitor group for testing the algorithm needs to have as many and the same range of comorbidities as the ME/CFS group. Or alternatively that the ME/CFS group be a 'no comorbidities' group. Otherwise all your algorithm may be picking up is the presence of comorbidities.

More later.
 
Addressing comorbidities within ME/CFS
To thoroughly investigate the impact of comorbid conditions in ME/CFS requires stratifying the cohort into groups of isolated condition combinations, which can substantially reduce the sample size and the statistical power.

For example, there were 211 ME/CFS individuals with a combination of depression and other comorbid conditions, and 24 individuals with depression only. We recognise that the other 265 comorbid conditions not analysed in this study may influence the biomarker associations.

Therefore,we created another cohort with 354 ME/CFS individuals with or without hypertension, depression, asthma, IBS, hay fever, hypothyroidism, or migraine and performed association tests (Supplementary Fig. 7) and sensitivity analysis for this subset (Supplementary Data 9).

Thirty-one of the initial 168 ME/CFS biomarker associations remained significant (P < 2.01 × 10−4). SFA% and omega-3 were the only significant associations that produced greater odds ratio in the subset than the full cohort. The lower odds ratios observed may be attributed to the reduced number of comorbid conditions reported by each individual, rather than the specific condition.

The average number of comorbid conditions was 3.0 for the full cohort and 0.6 for the subset. This suggests that the burden of having several comorbid conditions might exacerbate ME/CFS symptoms (inclusive of symptoms from common comorbid conditions), reflecting a higher disease severity, leading to more pronounced biomarker signals in the full cohort.

I don't understand what the 'with or without' cohort means. Can you explain? It seems notable that whatever this group is, they have fewer co-morbidities and far fewer significant biomarker associations down from 168 to 31. You explain this as them being likely to have more severe ME/CFS, but it could be that their ME/CFS is no different in severity, they just have a greater contribution of biomarkers from comorbidities.

I think the logical next step would be to look at the data for those with ME/CFS and no co-morbidities, if there are any. I assume there are a few. Can they be checked?

Clinical predictors attributable to biomarker variation

We investigated the relationship between the NMR metabolomic biomarkers and baseline characteristics to identify risk factors and routine clinical markers that may be potential modifiable targets for treatment or management 22. The maximum amount of variation explained by 61 baseline characteristics(Supplementary Fig. 8 and Supplementary Data 10) on 249 biomarkers was identified (Supplementary Data 11), and the top six most explainable biomarkers in ME/CFS are shown in Fig. 3.


Building an ME/CFS score with machine learning
The ability to comprehensively quantitate metabolites in a single run is one of the advantages of using NMR for metabolomics5, conveniently allowing for the combining of biomarkers to generate a multi-variable disease score through machine learning46,47. We implemented a two-stage model training and selection workflow (Supplementary Fig. 1). .... these models achieved performance up to an AUC of 0.89 and recall (i.e. sensitivity) of 0.77,comparable to performance on the independent blind test set, providing confidence in the generalisability and robustness of the final models.
I'm not convinced the generalisability is specific to ME/CFS since my understanding is the model is based on comparing pwME with all their mix of comorbidities with people with no disease ie super healthy. It may be simply a rather good model for identifying people with multiple morbidities and symptoms. Hence the need to test the model against a mixed population matched for gender balance, and key features that figure heavily in your ME/CFS score such as tiredness and pain.

Subsequently, an ME/CFS score was derived using a weighted sum of the important features from each model, ... the Light GBM model48 was chosen as the optimal model, selecting 19 baseline characteristics and nine NMR biomarkers (Supplementary Data 14), and achieving an AUC of 0.83, and a recall of 0.70 on the blind test set. Furthermore, the LightGBM score yielded an OR of3.61, CI: 3.45–3.78, P 0 (Fig. 5c), which is ~2.5 times more strongly associated to ME/CFS than the top individual biomarker, TG/PG.

While other forward feature selection models had slightly better performance metrics (Supplementary Data 13), models with a combination of baseline characteristics and biomarker features were preferred over baseline characteristics only as to reduce the possibility of selecting too many subjective features. Additionally, scores that exhibited inverse, non-significant or weaker associations with comorbid groups were also prioritised in the model selection process, in which the Light GBM score demonstrated with hypertension, asthma and hayfever (Supplementary Fig. 12).

I hope I've copied these correctly. I've rearranged the list to start with things the patient can fill in.
Fig. 4 | Contributions of the 28 scaled features selected by LightGBM model.Feature importance from the independent blind test set was measured using splitimportance (green), mean SHAP value (orange) and effect size (determined bylogistics regression shown in purple). The features are arranged in the order chosenduring forward feature selection, optimised for AUC. Split importance indicates thefrequency with which a feature was used to split nodes and mean SHAP value isrepresented as the magnitude of the average impact the feature has on the modeloutput. Patterned bars in the effect size panel indicate a negative direction, solid barsindicate positive association. Detailed explanations of the 28 features selected areprovided in Supplementary Data 14.

Frequency of Tiredness/Lethargy
Smoker
Alcohol consumption
Frequency of Depressed Moods
Female
Headache Pain
Whole body Pain
Hip Pain
Stomach/Abdominal Pain
Facial Pain
Sleep Duration
Sleeplessness/Insomnia
Nap During Day
Age at Recruitment

Acetone
Leucine
Total-PPUFA %
Nucleated Red Blood Cell Count
Nucleated Red Blood Cell %
Immature Reticulocyte Fraction
L-VLDL-FC
Acetoacetate
Systolic Blood Pressure
S-LDL-TG
S-LDL-P
Immature Reticulocyte Fraction
M-VLDL-P

From Figure 4 it seems that by far the biggest contribution to the model output comes from Tiredness/lethargy, with whole body pain next, then age at recruitment.Though if you add together all the variations on pain they would be the biggest I think. By far the largest effect size comes from whole body pain with facial pain and lethargy next. Some of the few metabolomics markers have hardly any effect on the output, suggesting they are included more to claim they are relevant rather than to produce good diagnostics.

I see the output was compared with the output using a single feature, saying the output was 2.5 times as strong as the single individual strongest biomarker. I think a fairer comparison might be to compare it with the output of a model just using the things the patient can answer to their doctor in a diagnostic interview, as I've separated out as the first 14 on the list, or better still, the relevant ones to ME/CFS.

So how about testing the ME/CFS cohort against a random cohort from the whole biobank who don't have an ME/CFS diagnosis, but match for all of:
Frequency of Tiredness/Lethargy
Sleep Duration
Whole body Pain
Headache Pain
Female
plus having a random assortment of comorbidities.

Since the purpose of this ME/CFS score is to assist doctors who don't know much about ME/CFS with diagnosis, the next step, I think, is to try it out with real doctors against a set of questions and simple tests they can access that is more geared towards actually identifying ME/CFS, including questions to identify PEM, fatiguability, OI, pain, and the FUNCAP questionnaire. I suspect the latter would do better, and be much cheaper, and have the advantage of teaching the doctor what ME/CFS actually is.

Having said all that, I still think there is some value in this research, but it would have been better framed as an exploration of features in the biobank data that may be relevant to biomedical research, rather than publicising it as a way to diagnose ME/CFS.

I've run out of energy for this. I hope some of my thoughts are helpful.
 
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Since you asked, I've come back to this to take a closer look. I don't have the capacity to read back over this thread so forgive me if I repeat stuff that's been said already, quite possibly by me. I'm reading back over the paper and picking out bits to ask about.

Baseline characteristics Table 2



Looking at the figures in the table, I want to ask whether you took sex imbalance in the different groups into account. For example the hand grip strength would be expected to be higher in groups with more males. If you haven't taken that into account, can you run those calculations again for each sex separately?
Given that you also found differences in lipid profiles between the sexes, would it be better to make separate male and female algorithms? Can this be done?

Metabolomic profile.


Given that you are suggesting your ME/CFS score alogithm is good at predicting ME/CFS and may be able to be used to help diagnosis, how did you take the 2 year people's results into account in designing the algorithm?



Doesn't this make it essential that the comparitor group for developing an algorithm needs to take into account that the ME/CFS group have multiple co-morbidities, whereas the other groups are selected specifically for not having any co-morbidities?
I agree with the suggestion that the comparitor group for testing the algorithm needs to have as many and the same range of comorbidities as the ME/CFS group. Or alternatively that the ME/CFS group be a 'no comorbidities' group. Otherwise all your algorithm may be picking up is the presence of comorbidities.

More later.

We didn't analyse sex separately. I think that is something we should definitely look at though.

In this paper we introduce the concept of a differential diagnostic for ME. Most diagnostics are usually a signal of the pathomechanism. Since we don't know pathomechanism we think in the absence we could try build a differential diagnostic. This is a step towards that, not the finished product. I just wanted to clarify that because some of the things you point out are very important. Probably the key one that we miss with this dataset is length of illness. Another key factor is that these diseases are common but not all the most difficult to exclude.
 
I don't understand what the 'with or without' cohort means. Can you explain? It seems notable that whatever this group is, they have fewer co-morbidities and far fewer significant biomarker associations down from 168 to 31. You explain this as them being likely to have more severe ME/CFS, but it could be that their ME/CFS is no different in severity, they just have a greater contribution of biomarkers from comorbidities.

I think the logical next step would be to look at the data for those with ME/CFS and no co-morbidities, if there are any. I assume there are a few. Can they be checked?





I'm not convinced the generalisability is specific to ME/CFS since my understanding is the model is based on comparing pwME with all their mix of comorbidities with people with no disease ie super healthy. It may be simply a rather good model for identifying people with multiple morbidities and symptoms. Hence the need to test the model against a mixed population matched for gender balance, and key features that figure heavily in your ME/CFS score such as tiredness and pain.





I hope I've copied these correctly. I've rearranged the list to start with things the patient can fill in.


Frequency of Tiredness/Lethargy
Smoker
Alcohol consumption
Frequency of Depressed Moods
Female
Headache Pain
Whole body Pain
Hip Pain
Stomach/Abdominal Pain
Facial Pain
Sleep Duration
Sleeplessness/Insomnia
Nap During Day
Age at Recruitment

Acetone
Leucine
Total-PPUFA %
Nucleated Red Blood Cell Count
Nucleated Red Blood Cell %
Immature Reticulocyte Fraction
L-VLDL-FC
Acetoacetate
Systolic Blood Pressure
S-LDL-TG
S-LDL-P
Immature Reticulocyte Fraction
M-VLDL-P

From Figure 4 it seems that by far the biggest contribution to the model output comes from Tiredness/lethargy, with whole body pain next, then age at recruitment.Though if you add together all the variations on pain they would be the biggest I think. By far the largest effect size comes from whole body pain with facial pain and lethargy next. Some of the few metabolomics markers have hardly any effect on the output, suggesting they are included more to claim they are relevant rather than to produce good diagnostics.

I see the output was compared with the output using a single feature, saying the output was 2.5 times as strong as the single individual strongest biomarker. I think a fairer comparison might be to compare it with the output of a model just using the things the patient can answer to their doctor in a diagnostic interview, as I've separated out as the first 14 on the list, or better still, the relevant ones to ME/CFS.

So how about testing the ME/CFS cohort against a random cohort from the whole biobank who don't have an ME/CFS diagnosis, but match for all of:
Frequency of Tiredness/Lethargy
Sleep Duration
Whole body Pain
Headache Pain
Female
plus having a random assortment of comorbidities.

Since the purpose of this ME/CFS score is to assist doctors who don't know much about ME/CFS with diagnosis, the next step, I think, is to try it out with real doctors against a set of questions and simple tests they can access that is more geared towards actually identifying ME/CFS, including questions to identify PEM, fatiguability, OI, pain, and the FUNCAP questionnaire. I suspect the latter would do better, and be much cheaper, and have the advantage of teaching the doctor what ME/CFS actually is.

Having said all that, I still think there is some value in this research, but it would have been better framed as an exploration of features in the biobank data that may be relevant to biomedical research, rather than publicising it as a way to diagnose ME/CFS.

I've run out of energy for this. I hope some of my thoughts are helpful.

Yeah this paper was really about exploring the potential of a differential diagnostic. We didn't plan it around exploring features in the biobank data. We were working on it but Ponting lab brought out a paper on this. There are still other things to explore though in a follow up. Multi morbidity control, a variation on the differential diagnostic topic to be purely objective, etc. but also some of these suggestions you have here have not been done and could be really good.

The true tool we are trying to create is unlikely to use the UK Biobank data. Instead we have medical records from clinics around Australia that we will try develop a differential diagnostic from.

Ideally we'd like to improve on the idiopathic fatigue pathway (https://www.racgp.org.au/afp/2014/july/fatigue - Figure 1) that GPs put patients through that present to their office with ongoing tiredness/fatigue.
 
Crossposted.
My concern about the emphasis on a diagnostic is not so much the research, which is interesting and has potential to lead to further biomedical research on what's going on in ME/CFS, but the emphasis given on the diagnostic as the importance of the study in the title, conclusion of the abstract, and plain language summary. Until it's tested against guidance for doctors on identifying PEM and other key clinical features, I don't see how you can begin to claim it has value for diagnosis. Why for example would you design a diagnostic that asks about face pain or smoking, but not about PEM?
 
Ideally we'd like to improve on the idiopathic fatigue pathway (https://www.racgp.org.au/afp/2014/july/fatigue - Figure 1) that GPs put patients through that present to their office with ongoing tiredness/fatigue.
Maybe we should have a thread on that. The RCGP HANDI treatment guide for ME/CFS is a disaster, focused on GET. So I guess this is no better for ME/CFS
 
In this paper we introduce the concept of a differential diagnostic for ME.
Ideally we'd like to improve on the idiopathic fatigue pathway (https://www.racgp.org.au/afp/2014/july/fatigue - Figure 1) that GPs put patients through that present to their office with ongoing tiredness/fatigue.
I still don’t understand how this tests is supposed to add value. I’ll repeat my question from above:

Can you please give a high level outline of the diagnostic process with and without the test and explain which activities that are different?
 
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