Deep phenotyping of post-infectious myalgic encephalomyelitis/chronic fatigue syndrome, 2024, Walitt et al

Which often frankly disturbs me because post-exercise fatigue is pleasant. It's not just one of the reasons why a lot of people regularly exercise, it's also encouraged based on this: you feel better after it, when you have a healthy body. Yes, for the long-term overall benefits, but to most people the fact that it's pleasant, satisfying, is good enough in itself. That feeling of good weariness, the endorphin comedown, it all feels great.

To conflate PEM with post-exercise fatigue is frankly as ridiculous as comparing a slap to the face to a kiss. I have a really hard time taking people who make those claims seriously about anything. Do they not have bodily experience of their own? Why are they arguing that something that feels good and healthy to most people must be the same thing as something horrible that is clearly pathological? They would make just as much sense arguing that being sick feels great: what the hell are you even talking about here with this nonsense?

Post-exercise fatigue is not unpleasant, there is nothing unpleasant to avoid for most people here. To take this excuse and extend it to a few minutes of pressing buttons is straight up insulting our intelligence. We can keep insisting to them that we know, we can tell the difference, that this is something else entirely, but they don't have to listen. Sure, not everyone agrees to this, lots of people hate exercise, but it's a normal physiological reaction that most people do enjoy and they are warping it completely to suit their ideology. They keep having to invent fake mental illnesses to make up for their own incompetence. What a rotten system they have built for people like us.
This is where terminology lets us down. Personally I find "post-exercise" fatigue unpleasant - which only happened for me after getting sick. But I contrast that with what I would call a "healthy tiredness" that I had before getting sick. So even here there are some nuances in interpretation where PEF might mean different things to different people. (Maybe I'm using the term wrong)

I'd really love to have that lovely "healthy tiredness" feeling back again, like I used to get after exercise or a busy day at work.
 
  • Received21 February 2024

So they received a critical response from experts in post viral illness a month after the intermural study came out

And the response to that expert criticism was submitted to Nature Comms on 27 March 2024.

And yet at the Symposium in May 2024 the voiced criticism was directed at the patients

From 22:18

“I really wanted to directly address the ME/CFS community […] when you doubt our intentions and pick apart every single word, you also tear us apart. It causes pain and suffering on both sides and demoralizes us and shatters our goals.”
 
And yet at the Symposium in May 2024 the voiced criticism was directed at the patients

From 22:18
Directed at the patients:
We are your partners and we have the same shared goals - and I think that’s important for you to realise.
As in any partnership, healthy criticism and respect for one another will help us grow because we are really on the same side.
All the same, when you doubt our intentions and pick apart every single word, you also tear us apart. It causes pain and suffering on both sides and demoralizes us and shatters our goals.
So… But we have a phenomenal team of over 75 physicians and researchers who have devoted a huge amount of time and effort to understand the fundamental basis of ME/CFS. They are the world’s experts in the field and they took on this project on top of everything else they were doing. When we asked them to lend their expertise to the project, each one of them said yes. And they delivered.
So together I think we can really make a huge difference in this disease, but it’s important that we work together and not against one another.
So… Uhm… I think this is also an opportunity to discuss our findings and I urge you to not miss the opportunity to thank these researchers when you get a chance. These researchers are really shining the light on the path that we need to follow. And holding hands together we will find treatments and cures that we desperately need.
This is so toxic, I’m at a loss for words.
 
Directed at the patients:






This is so toxic, I’m at a loss for words.
So much money and patient time and hope was put into this study. The NIH fobbed off patients for years because this study was going to move the field forward and provide answers. And it was such underhanded, patronising bullshit.

A deliberate exercise in foot dragging, and then they scold us for complaining. The absolute gall.
 
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