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Deep phenotyping of myalgic encephalomyelitis/chronic fatigue syndrome in Japanese population: Kitami, Fukuda et al 2020

Discussion in 'BioMedical ME/CFS Research' started by Sly Saint, Nov 17, 2020.

  1. Sly Saint

    Sly Saint Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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  2. John Mac

    John Mac Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Are these profiles causing the sleep disruption or are they being caused by the sleep disruption?
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2020
  3. Snowdrop

    Snowdrop Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    I don't have anything to offer about how the research was performed but would wish that anyone doing proper (as in biomed) research might consider orthostatic intolerance issues as they seem to be wide spread among us.
  4. shak8

    shak8 Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Correlation does not mean causation; it is an association to be explored (maybe).
  5. FMMM1

    FMMM1 Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    I would have liked to see objective assessment of sleep disturbance e.g. using sleep monitors.

    Haven't tried to research it but the technique they used (1h-nmr spectroscopy) is generally considered to be a reference technique i.e. gives accurate results.

    Not sure about urea results "decreased uric acid, urea nitrogen, and total bilirubin" - Reference might give insight:
    Yamano, E. et al. Index markers of chronic fatigue syndrome with dysfunction of TCA and urea cycles. Sci. Rep. 6, 34990 (2016).
    EDIT: yes, the 2016 study found low urea levels [https://www.nature.com/articles/srep34990]

    Chris Armstrong found increase in use of protein (certain amino acids) for energy.

    @Jonathan Edwards has made an interesting suggestion re MR spectroscopy:
    "I still think for any of this to have any plausibility it should be possible to find real-time changes in metabolites in ME patients during exercise using MR spectroscopy."

    Chris Armstrong (from memory) is looking at the whole protein metabolism thing. Also, check out Cara Tomas's paper - comments here https://www.s4me.info/threads/subst...-in-patients-with-cfs-tomas-et-al-2020.17464/
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2020
    Simon M, Michelle, Samuel and 3 others like this.
  6. FMMM1

    FMMM1 Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Slightly unusual responding to your own post.

    I received a few questions re my post
    --- Chris Armstong found specific amino acids used-
    Chris's study was way back in 2015; subsequently Fluge and Mella added to that (2016) -- might be others
    Supplementation with amino acids - search this forum and you'll find stuff - it's come up recently - suggestions?

    Re whether - imaging study was sound ---
    MRI (really same as magnetic resonance spectroscopy - which was used in this study) is generally considered to be sound i.e. it's a fundamental property which is being measured. I've heard PET referred to as something artificial i.e. created and thus not as reliable as MRI/MRS.
    The scan studies I've seen are mostly PET i.e. since MRI scans are only sensitive enough to pick up glutathione and a few other things [Dikoma C. Shungu - http://vivo.med.cornell.edu/display/cwid-dcs7001 - check out his MRI studies]
    Invisible Woman, Michelle and Samuel like this.

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