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David Tuller [13/6/18]: A Curriculum for Treating CFS with CBT

Discussion in 'General ME/CFS News' started by Esther12, Jun 14, 2018.

  1. Esther12

    Esther12 Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Inara, NelliePledge, Barry and 32 others like this.
  2. Hutan

    Hutan Moderator Staff Member

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    National Curriculum for CBT in the Context of Long Term Persistent and Distressing Health Conditions.
    June 2017
    Unit 3.3 CFS/ME

    Outcomes include:
    Ability to use standard and idiosyncratic measures to evaluate outcomes with CBT for CFS

    Idiosyncratic measures of course are handy when standard measures fail to show anything. Things like 60 on the SF-36 Physical Function scale being 'recovered' I guess.
     
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2018
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  3. Sly Saint

    Sly Saint Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    The Geraghty tweet:


    I am so glad that Trudie Chalder is finally getting the 'recognition' she deserves :thumbsdown: for her major part in the whole CBT scam.

    thanks @dave30th
     
  4. Trish

    Trish Moderator Staff Member

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    I agree, it is time to turn a spotlight on the whole MUS/IAPT bandwagon.

    A lot of the perpetrators of this travesty of health care are not doctors or psychiatrists, but psychologists and therapists of various descriptions like Trudie Chalder, Rona Moss-Morris, and a host of others who are professors all over the country currently running and 'researching' these sorts of useless therapies, and with the added danger of being completely clueless medically, yet thinking they can take care of patients with physical symptoms they don't understand. That is dangerous.
     
  5. inox

    inox Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    "The same crap as always."

    <3
     
  6. Sly Saint

    Sly Saint Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Under 'our experts'
    "
    Director, Chronic Fatigue Service |Professor
    Professor Chalder is the director of the Chronic Fatigue Service as well as a professor of cognitive behavioural psychotherapy with the Department of Psychological Medicine, at the Institute of Psychiatry, King’s College London.

    Other roles
    Professor Chalder gives national and international lectures on CFS. She has been closely involved in developing and evaluating treatments for adolescents and adults with CFS. These studies have contributed to recommendations made in the NICE guidelines.

    Professor Chalder has also taken part in international collaborations with Professor Hege Erikson (Norway) and Dr John Wells (Ireland).

    Background
    Professor Chalder qualified as a registered general nurse in 1981 at Grimsby General Hospital. In 1984, she completed her registered mental nurse training at Tooting Bec Hospital, London. She completed her Master of Science (MSc) in 1990 at City University in London. In 1998, she went onto complete her PhD at the Institute of Psychiatry, King’s College London.

    Research
    Professor Chalder’s research interests are focused on developing cognitive behavioural models and treatments for medically unexplained symptoms and symptoms related to chronic disease."

    https://www.national.slam.nhs.uk/about-us/our-experts/trudiechalder/

    plus of course she's in a band!
    https://www.s4me.info/threads/babcp-band-bedlam-featuring-trudie-chalder-gig.3778/

    eta: forgot to mention the CFQ
     
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2018
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  7. Jonathan Edwards

    Jonathan Edwards Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    What is useful about flagging up this document is that it makes it completely transparent that those in charge of PACE and IAPT do not understand the difference between reliable evidence/inference and making things up as you go along.

    It is revealed. These people do not understand how science works. The essence is 'learn how to put two and two together and make whatever number you like.'
     
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2018
  8. TiredSam

    TiredSam Moderator Staff Member

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  9. Alvin

    Alvin Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    I think it needs to be pointed out that treating people for a psychological disorder they don't have actually costs more money then it saves as well as the emotional and physical harm induced.
     
  10. Sean

    Sean Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    The cumulative (direct and indirect) costs of misdiagnosis and mistreatment must be huge.
     
  11. Alvin

    Alvin Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Indirect costs are not measured on the same chart so they don't matter
     
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  12. Invisible Woman

    Invisible Woman Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Of course there are other costs involved in setting up shiny new IAPT clinics - the cost of employing all these barely trained "therapists" who will have holiday pay, national insurance contributions and a public sector pension.

    Of course they will be so minimally trained that if the IAPT clinics eventually close they will be virtually useless elsewhere within the NHS.

    These clinics will be a massive millstone around the neck of the health service for years, if not decades.
     
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  13. NelliePledge

    NelliePledge Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    IAPT sausage machine CBT I went to was on a contract not NHS
    https://www.concerngroup.org/insight-healthcare/
     
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2018
  14. Barry

    Barry Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Especially as in some cases it is probably going to induce psychological issues they never previously had. A serious suggestion, not (just) sarcasm. Is this a form of harm in itself? 'Treating' someone for a mental illness they do not have feels like it's going to induce its own stresses into a person.
     
  15. Invisible Woman

    Invisible Woman Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    I would say definitely. Years ago I met a lady who had MS. It was quite advanced. Although English she was living in poor South African country when she first got sick. This was way back when MS was not as well understood. The doc told her he thought she had MS and that she should return to the UK as she would get better treatment.

    On moving back her GP took a few blood tests and told her she didn't have MS. She didn't know you couldn't diagnose it this way. She then embarked on years and years of anti depressants and psych appointments and feeling emotionally numb, unable to connect with either of her children.

    By the time she was correctly diagnosed, she felt her life had been destroyed. She had no relationship with her now adult kids. Her career as a musician ended long before - emotionally numb isn't conducive. She felt she had no fight left in her by the time she got the correct diagnosis/and no self confidence left either as people had been denying her symptoms were "real".

    So there 's the fairly significant harm to her and the knock on harm to her family.
     
  16. Alvin

    Alvin Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Indeed.
    Not being believed makes a big difference to someone's emotional well being and being treated badly because of it will cause harm. Ironically the opposite of what these psychs claim their goal is...
    I sometimes wonder how they fall into this trap, part of it is probably their hubris, their faulty beliefs, their unwillingness to listen to patients, their subconscious biases, their need to think they are doing a good job and are in control, victim blaming, the list goes on.

    And not being treated for what they really have means their physical condition will get worse because its untreated.
     
  17. lansbergen

    lansbergen Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Their "treatment" is a huge stressor.

     
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  18. Sly Saint

    Sly Saint Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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  19. Sly Saint

    Sly Saint Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Am trying to find an original/unedited version of this interview with Chalder (post PACE?) which is putting CFS in with MUS.

     
  20. Esther12

    Esther12 Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Could be worth contacting Maxwhd on twitter if you have an account - looks like he put it on youtube:

    https://twitter.com/maxwhd/with_replies
     

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