Covid-19 vaccines and vaccinations

@SNT Gatchaman - would you mind explaining the effects of the presence of these fragments of recombinant Spike protein in those who had a mRNA vaccine?
If it wasn't planned that they be there, but has been shown to happen by various groups, what is the significance of that? Will there be studies comparing the 50% who have them with the 50% who don't?

Could these fragments be causing the microclots that are being found? I have also read of substances being found in urine.

Your last sentence indicates that the technique they used to detect the vaccine spike in blood can be used on other body parts. Do you know if research on other parts of the body has happened? "Data in preparation" ? Do you know of any studies on the heart for example? - there seemed to be claims of lots of myo-and pericarditis around post vaccination.

I 'm jumping round a lot maybe drawing links where there aren't any but it will be interesting to see the "data in preparation". Thank you for posting this.
 
SNT Gatchaman said:
The very short version is they found spike protein (vaccine-specific, not virus) in blood between 69-187 days from vaccination in 50%. (This isn't supposed to happen, but has been demonstrated by other groups).

On the technical side, they describe their technique, using mass spectrometry following trypsinisation, which they say will work for other body fluids (urine, saliva, lung lavage fluid).

They also say they can use this technique to detect vaccine spike in any body tissue - data in preparation.
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Thanks @SNT Gatchaman!
 
Binkie4 said:
would you mind explaining the effects of the presence of these fragments of recombinant Spike protein in those who had a mRNA vaccine?
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I'm no expert, just trying to keep track of publications as they come out; but million dollar question and I don't think anyone knows. To make an effective vaccine we needed to train our immune systems on the spike protein. The assumption based on current understanding was that this occurred in lymph nodes and that mRNA has a short half-life. Both those assumptions seem to be being called into question.

This paper references another that found that mRNA (as opposed to spike protein) was present in the blood out to 28 days in patients whose viral landscape was being monitored (hepatitis C) —

SARS-CoV-2 spike mRNA vaccine sequences circulate in blood up to 28 days after COVID-19 vaccination (2023, APMIS)

There was also the study that showed mRNA in breast milk (although that was up to 45 hours post vaccination) —

Detection of Messenger RNA COVID-19 Vaccines in Human Breast Milk (2022, JAMA Pediatrics)

If it wasn't planned that they be there, but has been shown to happen by various groups, what is the significance of that? Will there be studies comparing the 50% who have them with the 50% who don't?
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I don't know what studies may be planned. It sounds like something that should be evaluated, because it could lead to improvements in technology and thereby safety and efficacy, as well as inform on aspects of immune function. I can imagine that there may not be much appetite to support such research from government funding agencies however, given political and legal implications.

Could these fragments be causing the microclots that are being found? I have also read of substances being found in urine.
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We don't know if microclots are a real phenomenon in vivo, vs an artefact of hypercoagulability. There do seem to be multiple papers showing derangement of coagulation pathways, so it might be more likely the latter. However, microthrombi are consistently reported in post-mortem studies, and while by definition that wasn't consistent with ongoing effective physiology, we should leave the door open to the possibility that they are present in LC.

We have had in vivo evidence of abnormal physiology that could be explained by microclots, eg the xenon MRI studies —

Review of Hyperpolarized Pulmonary Functional 129Xe MR for Long-COVID (2023, Journal of Magnetic Resonance Imaging)

I recall one paper that showed in vitro amyloid fibrin formation in the presence of spike protein —

Amyloidogenesis of SARS-CoV-2 Spike Protein (2022, Journal of the American Chemical Society)

And there was the paper that showed spike protein in the middle of clots retrieved by endovascular techniques —

Evidence of SARS-CoV-2 spike protein on retrieved thrombi from COVID-19 patients (2022, Journal of Hematology & Oncology)

Your last sentence indicates that the technique they used to detect the vaccine spike in blood can be used on other body parts. Do you know if research on other parts of the body has happened? "Data in preparation" ? Do you know of any studies on the heart for example? - there seemed to be claims of lots of myo-and pericarditis around post vaccination.
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Circulating Spike Protein Detected in Post–COVID-19 mRNA Vaccine Myocarditis (2023, Circulation)

Not vaccine-specific spike but there are some, including a recent (obese) mouse study that showed spike protein caused cardiomyocyte mitochondrial metabolic reprogramming and resultant fibrosis —

Spike Protein Impairs Mitochondrial Function in Human Cardiomyocytes: Mechanisms Underlying Cardiac Injury in COVID-19 (2023, Cells)
The SARS-CoV-2 spike protein induces long-term transcriptional perturbations of mitochondrial metabolic genes, causes cardiac fibrosis, and reduces myocardial contractile in obese mice (2023, Molecular Metabolism)

I'm jumping round a lot maybe drawing links where there aren't any but it will be interesting to see the "data in preparation". Thank you for posting this.
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It's a difficult area, intersecting science and politics. To my mind there's a spectrum: with the rabid anti-vaxxers/"vaccines are the sole cause of LC and everything else bad" at one end and the "vaccines can do no wrong and are immune (hah!) from any conceivable adverse effects" at the other. Science/reality is somewhere in the middle of that spectrum. I think people have been surprised to realise that the component the virus uses to enter the cell and that we need to train immunity on — the spike protein — could itself be pathogenic. We have a few papers under the spike-protein tag.
 
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Yeah I think so too. I’ve experienced the effects of the raw pre-vax virus and the effects of the vaccine. The first got me close to hospitalised, blood O2 down. Couldn’t get breath in. The second worsened ME+LC for months and months each time. Devil and the deep blue sea.

That’s why I’m in favour of actually acting like we’re in a pandemic instead of that it just magically vanished one day. This is it now. The end of society or acknowledge the threat and act on it. With protective measures. Air filtration, respirator mask distribution and requirements, all the stuff we know already works and drug development. Instead of feeding people into the fire via infection or vaccination or considering the vaccine doesn’t sterilise, both.
 
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In the U.S., updated versions of Pfizer and Moderna vaccines have been approved, but not Novavax. I wonder if there's a legitimate reason the FDA has not done this yet, or if Novavax approval is being slow walked for some reason.
 
In case anyone else here in the UK like me is approaching the 65th birthday and was unsure if they are entitled to a Covid-19 vaccination in the current round, anyone aged 65 years or over by the 31st of March 2024 is entitled.

I got the following email from the NHS this morning:

NHS Seasonal Vaccination Invitation

You are a priority for seasonal flu and COVID-19 vaccinations. This is because you are aged 65 or over (by 31 March 2024).

Having both vaccinations will reduce your risk of serious illness and help you recover more quickly if you catch flu or COVID-19.

You can book using any of the options below unless you have already had or booked your vaccinations.

How to get your COVID-19 vaccination
How to get your flu vaccination
If you need support
  • If you can’t get online, phone 119 for help arranging your vaccinations.
If you usually get your care at home, please contact your GP surgery to arrange a home visit with a local NHS service. Go to www.england.nhs.uk/local-covid-19-vaccination-contacts if your GP surgery is unable to help.

More information 
Seasonal vaccinations have proven safety records. They give you better protection than any immunity gained from previous infections.

Flu and COVID-19 spread more easily in winter. Even if you’ve been vaccinated before, it’s important you get the protection you need because viruses change, and protection fades over time.

Go to www.england.nhs.uk/seasonal-invites for invitations in easy read and other languages and formats. Visit www.nhs.uk/seasonalvaccinations for more information.

Kind regards,

Dr Nikita Kanani MBE

GP and Deputy Lead
NHS Seasonal Vaccination Programmes
NHS England
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Given I have had no lasting adverse response to either the flue or the Covid-19 vaccinations in recent years I will go ahead with both. Note, my PA, who was listed as a carer via the local authority about a year ago, has also been able to book on line for the current Covid-19 booster.

[Note - had my birthday been a few months later we would have had the anomalous situation that I would have not been entitled to the vaccine, but my PA would have been in the grounds she is my carer.]
 
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Canadians are inadvertently getting an older formulation of the COVID vaccine when they intended (laudably) to get the updated XBB vaccine. It shows how abysmal messaging about the updated vaccine has been here. I always ask before I get my shot.

I'm still on the fence about getting the updated version in December after getting Covid last December. The last 2 jabs since getting Covid made my legs weak for 6 weeks. I never had any issues with the other jabs.
 
Just searched the NHS website to see which Covid vaccine is on offer this season here in the UK, and found the following:

Vaccines being offered this season

You will be given a vaccine made by Pfizer, Sanofi or Moderna.

The vaccines are updated forms of the vaccines used in previous campaigns and produce slightly higher levels of antibody against some strains of Omicron.

As we cannot predict which variants of COVID-19 will be circulating this winter, the Joint Committee on Vaccination and Immunisation (JCVI) have concluded that any of these updated vaccines can all be used in adults.

For a very small number of people, another vaccine product may be advised by your doctor.

Please accept the vaccination that is offered to you as soon as you are able to – it is important to have your vaccine to build up your protection against severe illness before the winter.

See https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...rces/a-guide-to-the-covid-19-autumn-programme
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It looks like if you just turn up for a vaccine you will be one of the three mentioned, but will have to take whichever of the three they have in stock on the day.

So anyone in the UK concerned about specific vaccines, but still wanting to be vaccinated should discuss it with their GP as this seems to imply there are alternatives. It is so frustrating that we know so little concrete about the enormous variation in responses to vaccines between different people with ME and also possiblely within individuals too.

(Note After the onset of my ME, but I was still working over twenty years ago I regularly had the flue jab, knowing it would knock me out for three weeks, but balancing that against the fact that I worked with vulnerable patients. When I was forced to retire and did not then have to worry about my contacts, I stopped having the flue jab because of the negative side effects. However, with the advent of pandemic I started again having the flue jab and was surprised to find out, though my ME overall has continue to deteriorate, I have no side effects now beyond a couple of days feeling groggy.)
 
Imagine how you would feel getting the older version vaccine assuming that it was the updated version and now have to another 6 months to get the more protective new version during the height of Covid infection.
 
Peter Trewhitt said:
It looks like if you just turn up for a vaccine you will be one of the three mentioned, but will have to take whichever of the three they have in stock on the day.
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Funny you should say that, because I've just come on to report something vaguely connected.

Someone on my Facebook feed asked her contacts whether any of them had been jabbed with something that wasn't Moderna. She was quite poorly after the last booster in May, and her GP is using the same one again. I was geographically the closest who said they'd had Pfizer, so she experimented with booking an appointment via the government website. She used my postcode for the location of the nearest centres, but her own NHS number, registered at an address about 20 miles away. No issues at all, she booked for the same pharmacy as me.

Whether they'll still be using the same vaccine next week is another matter, of course, but because it's a neighbourhood pharmacy and not a GP surgery (where you'd struggle to get through on the phone), at least she can ring up a couple of days before to check. She reckons it's well worth a 40 minute drive to get here if she doesn't have to lose over a week's income like last time.
 
Prolonging the delivery of influenza virus vaccine improves the quantity and quality of induced immune responses in mice, 2023

Introduction: Influenza vaccines play a vital role in protecting individuals from influenza virus infection and severe illness. However, current influenza vaccines have suboptimal efficacy, which is further reduced in cases where the vaccine strains do not match the circulating strains. One strategy to enhance the efficacy of influenza vaccines is by extended antigen delivery, thereby mimicking the antigen kinetics of a natural infection. Prolonging antigen availability was shown to quantitatively enhance influenza virus-specific immune responses but how it affects the quality of the induced immune response is unknown. Therefore, the current study aimed to investigate whether prolongation of the delivery of influenza vaccine improves the quality of the induced immune responses over that induced by prime-boost immunization.

Methods: Mice were given daily doses of whole inactivated influenza virus vaccine for periods of 14, 21, or 28 days; the control group received prime-boost immunization with a 28 days interval.

Results: Our data show that the highest levels of cellular and humoral immune responses were induced by 28 days of extended antigen delivery, followed by 21, and 14 days of delivery, and prime-boost immunization. Moreover, prolonging vaccine delivery also improved the quality of the induced antibody response, as indicated by higher level of high avidity antibodies, a balanced IgG subclass profile, and a higher level of cross-reactive antibodies.

Conclusions: Our findings contribute to a better understanding of the immune response to influenza vaccination and have important implications for the design and development of future slow-release influenza vaccines.
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https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fimmu.2023.1249902/full
 


Novavax Australia told me: "The TGA submission for the new variant strain Nuvaxovid vaccine is planned for October. Depending on the date of approval, the first batch is expected by the end of the year or early January and available in pharmacies and clinics soon after
 
substack:Christina Pagel

Latest Covid situation in the UK: 6 Oct 2023

In this substack, I’ll cover the latest on vaccination, cases, hospital admissions, deaths, variants and workforce disruption… so quite a bit to say this week!

The autumn 2023 campaign is underway - so far 3 million boosters given in England, with half of those in the most recent week to 1st Oct. NHS England estimated that about 21.5 million people are eligible for the autumn booster, which means we’re currently at about 14% uptake, so quite a long way to go.

more at link: https://christinapagel.substack.com/p/latest-covid-situation-in-the-uk?r=8zv6v
 
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