-
New Forum Software Installed (Still a few issues but reopening the forum) More details.
Covid-19 vaccines and vaccinations
- Thread starter hinterland
- Start date
Case reports.
Post-SARS-CoV-2 infection and post-vaccine-related neurological complications share clinical features and the same positivity to anti-ACE2 antibodies
Bellucci, Margherita; Bozzano, Federica Maria; Castellano, Chiara; Pesce, Giampaola; Beronio, Alessandro; Farshchi, Alireza Hajabbas; Limongelli, Alessandro; Uccelli, Antonio; Benedetti, Luana; De Maria, Andrea
A potential overlap in symptoms between post-acute COVID-19 syndrome and post-COVID-19 vaccination syndrome has been noted. We report a paired description of patients presenting with similar manifestations involving the central (CNS) or peripheral nervous system (PNS) following SARS-CoV-2 infection or vaccination, suggesting that both may have triggered similar immune-mediated neurological disorders in the presence of anti-idiotype antibodies directed against the ACE2 protein.
Four patients exhibited overlapping neurological manifestations following SARS-CoV-2 infection or vaccination: radiculitis, Guillain–Barre syndrome, and MRI-negative myelitis, respectively, sharing positivity for anti-ACE2 antibodies. Autoantibodies against AQP-4, MOG, GlyR, GAD, and amphiphysin, onconeural antibodies for CNS syndromes, and anti-ganglioside antibodies for PNS syndromes tested negative in all patients.
Anti-idiotype antibodies against ACE2 have been detected in patients who recovered from COVID-19 infection, and it has been hypothesized that such antibodies may mediate adverse events following SARS-CoV-2 infection or vaccination, resulting in the activation of the immune system against cells expressing ACE2, such as neurons. Our data reveal clinically overlapping syndromes triggered by SARS-CoV-2 infection or vaccination, sharing positivity for anti-ACE2 antibodies. Their presence, in the absence of other classic autoimmune markers of CNS or PNS involvement, suggests that they might play an active role in the context of an aberrant immune response.
Anti-idiotype antibodies directed against ACE2 may be triggered by both SARS-CoV-2 infection and vaccination, possibly contributing to neurological autoimmune manifestations. Their pathogenic role, however, remains to be demonstrated in large-scale, more structured studies.
Link | PDF (Frontiers in Immunology) [Open Access]
Post-SARS-CoV-2 infection and post-vaccine-related neurological complications share clinical features and the same positivity to anti-ACE2 antibodies
Bellucci, Margherita; Bozzano, Federica Maria; Castellano, Chiara; Pesce, Giampaola; Beronio, Alessandro; Farshchi, Alireza Hajabbas; Limongelli, Alessandro; Uccelli, Antonio; Benedetti, Luana; De Maria, Andrea
A potential overlap in symptoms between post-acute COVID-19 syndrome and post-COVID-19 vaccination syndrome has been noted. We report a paired description of patients presenting with similar manifestations involving the central (CNS) or peripheral nervous system (PNS) following SARS-CoV-2 infection or vaccination, suggesting that both may have triggered similar immune-mediated neurological disorders in the presence of anti-idiotype antibodies directed against the ACE2 protein.
Four patients exhibited overlapping neurological manifestations following SARS-CoV-2 infection or vaccination: radiculitis, Guillain–Barre syndrome, and MRI-negative myelitis, respectively, sharing positivity for anti-ACE2 antibodies. Autoantibodies against AQP-4, MOG, GlyR, GAD, and amphiphysin, onconeural antibodies for CNS syndromes, and anti-ganglioside antibodies for PNS syndromes tested negative in all patients.
Anti-idiotype antibodies against ACE2 have been detected in patients who recovered from COVID-19 infection, and it has been hypothesized that such antibodies may mediate adverse events following SARS-CoV-2 infection or vaccination, resulting in the activation of the immune system against cells expressing ACE2, such as neurons. Our data reveal clinically overlapping syndromes triggered by SARS-CoV-2 infection or vaccination, sharing positivity for anti-ACE2 antibodies. Their presence, in the absence of other classic autoimmune markers of CNS or PNS involvement, suggests that they might play an active role in the context of an aberrant immune response.
Anti-idiotype antibodies directed against ACE2 may be triggered by both SARS-CoV-2 infection and vaccination, possibly contributing to neurological autoimmune manifestations. Their pathogenic role, however, remains to be demonstrated in large-scale, more structured studies.
Link | PDF (Frontiers in Immunology) [Open Access]
Subtropical Island
Senior Member (Voting Rights)
I need to avoid reading tooo much today (other essential things I need to use up my quota on) but I have been wondering
how they distinguish adverse effects from the vaccination vs effects from getting an infection?
For example: I know someone who believes they have had long term significant adverse effects from the vaccine, which is possible, but they also were socialising with people who had covid (they didn’t know at the time). Since the effect I’m talking about is, from my reading, associated with covid infection immune response, it is therefore also known to be associated with the vaccine immune response.
They would say that they hadn’t caught covid then. But as I recall they felt ill for a few days and had opportunity for infection. This is all sounding like I’m doubting them and their illness, I’m really not. I’m very conscious that neither of us know for sure, only that it is most likely to be covid related. It’s something I might not have previously thought much about when reading research into adverse effects.
So it makes me wonder how researchers could differentiate such effects? After all, a lot of people would genuinely say they didn’t catch covid in a particular time period but if they didn’t test how would they know?
Perhaps for more immediate effects you would say the odds might favour one answer but if it’s something that developed over weeks (hard to know exactly) and is ongoing and fluctuating … I can’t imagine how one could distinguish for research purposes.
It seems to me that one of the few answers to this is the, now relatively short, period during which some countries managed to keep covid from circulating in the community whilst also rolling out vaccines. But I’m not sure if this was done? Or if there were other ways to do this?
Perhaps it doesn’t matter if you’re going to be inevitably exposed. But I thought it worth understanding better.
Subtropical Island
Senior Member (Voting Rights)
Just noting that this says that various vaccines had some statistically significant association with GBS but that Pfizer did not. It reminds me that generalising across multiple vaccine types can be good to scale up the numbers but it’s worth drilling down too. Reminds me that it’s good there are a range of vaccines developed and studied.
ukxmrv
Senior Member (Voting Rights)
It's not going to be the same for everyone but the symptoms I had from the vaccine were completely different to when I got the virus.
I also tested myself for a Covid infection plus the hospital did it as well.
The vaccine symptoms started as an acute onset on the evening of the vaccine and the day after. They didn't feel like a virus for me at the time but I still tested.
When I got Covid after that the symptoms were completely different to the vaccine. It felt like a virus.
Judging from posts from the vaccine group I belong it's not uncommon to hear of symptoms very distinctly different to a virus. No idea how common that is of course.
Last edited:
ukxmrv
Senior Member (Voting Rights)
Report on two deaths from the AZ vaccine.
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cx2g921rd2lo
Interesting timeline. I tried previously to put together something myself earlier
'Could doctors have been warned earlier'
Plus comments from the Coroner who didn't seem to think that one victims severe headaches warranted an emergency department assessment on the 4th of April although blood clots to the brain had been identified in the UK and Germany had suspended the AZ vaccine in March.
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cx2g921rd2lo
Interesting timeline. I tried previously to put together something myself earlier
'Could doctors have been warned earlier'
Plus comments from the Coroner who didn't seem to think that one victims severe headaches warranted an emergency department assessment on the 4th of April although blood clots to the brain had been identified in the UK and Germany had suspended the AZ vaccine in March.
Mij
Senior Member (Voting Rights)
Though the United States may be past the peak of its latest COVID-19 surge, federal health officials are eying ways to reduce the spread of the virus over colder months and the holiday season, including a relaunch of free COVID tests by mail.
LINK
A note about vaccine timing. We should note that if you’ve caught COVID within the past few days or weeks you “may” wait three months from a positive test or the start of symptoms, per the CDC, to make sure that your body mounts a robust response to the vaccine. Dr. Amesh Adalja, senior scholar at the Johns Hopkins Center for Health Security, says that wait should be at least three months. That’s because if you have antibodies to the virus in your system because of a recent infection, the immune response to a vaccine can be weak.
Dr. Amesh Adalja on X:
"In this piece I’m quoted about timing of #COVID19 vaccinations. Wait at least 3 months since one’s last vaccination or infection to get a more optimized immune response to the new vaccine"
LINK
LINK
A note about vaccine timing. We should note that if you’ve caught COVID within the past few days or weeks you “may” wait three months from a positive test or the start of symptoms, per the CDC, to make sure that your body mounts a robust response to the vaccine. Dr. Amesh Adalja, senior scholar at the Johns Hopkins Center for Health Security, says that wait should be at least three months. That’s because if you have antibodies to the virus in your system because of a recent infection, the immune response to a vaccine can be weak.
Dr. Amesh Adalja on X:
"In this piece I’m quoted about timing of #COVID19 vaccinations. Wait at least 3 months since one’s last vaccination or infection to get a more optimized immune response to the new vaccine"
LINK
Binkie4
Senior Member (Voting Rights)
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/czxlpjlgdzjo
Meta boss Mark Zuckerberg says he regrets bowing to what he calls pressure from the Biden administration to "censor" content on Facebook and Instagram during the coronavirus pandemic.
In a letter sent to a US House committee chair, he said some material – including humour and satire – was taken down in 2021 under pressure from senior officials.
The White House has defended its actions, saying it encouraged "responsible actions to protect public health and safety".
Meta boss Mark Zuckerberg says he regrets bowing to what he calls pressure from the Biden administration to "censor" content on Facebook and Instagram during the coronavirus pandemic.
In a letter sent to a US House committee chair, he said some material – including humour and satire – was taken down in 2021 under pressure from senior officials.
The White House has defended its actions, saying it encouraged "responsible actions to protect public health and safety".
Mij
Senior Member (Voting Rights)
August 30, 2024
FDA Authorized Updated Novavax COVID-10 Vaccine to Better Protect Against Currently Circulation Variants
Today, the U.S. Food and Drug Administration granted emergency use authorization (EUA) for an updated version of the Novavax COVID-19 vaccine that more closely targets currently circulating variants to provide better protection against serious consequences of COVID-19, including hospitalization and death. The updated vaccine is authorized for use in individuals 12 years of age and older. It includes a monovalent (single) component that corresponds to the Omicron variant JN.1 strain of SARS-CoV-2.
LINK
FDA Authorized Updated Novavax COVID-10 Vaccine to Better Protect Against Currently Circulation Variants
Today, the U.S. Food and Drug Administration granted emergency use authorization (EUA) for an updated version of the Novavax COVID-19 vaccine that more closely targets currently circulating variants to provide better protection against serious consequences of COVID-19, including hospitalization and death. The updated vaccine is authorized for use in individuals 12 years of age and older. It includes a monovalent (single) component that corresponds to the Omicron variant JN.1 strain of SARS-CoV-2.
LINK
perchance dreamer
Senior Member (Voting Rights)
I want to get the Novavax vaccine as soon as the updated version is available. I didn't know the FDA had approved it yesterday. That's great news.
The article says it will be shipped in prefilled syringes. That should make it easy for pharmacies to administer it. I don't remember the details, but one pharmacy in Austin stopped carrying the older version of Novavax because of the way it was sent, something about the difficulty of combining partially used vials with new vials to make a single dose. (I may be off base about this, but it was something that made it difficult for the pharmacy.) On its website, this same pharmacy said it will carry the updated version, so I guess its concerns have been addressed.
The article says it will be shipped in prefilled syringes. That should make it easy for pharmacies to administer it. I don't remember the details, but one pharmacy in Austin stopped carrying the older version of Novavax because of the way it was sent, something about the difficulty of combining partially used vials with new vials to make a single dose. (I may be off base about this, but it was something that made it difficult for the pharmacy.) On its website, this same pharmacy said it will carry the updated version, so I guess its concerns have been addressed.
Mij
Senior Member (Voting Rights)
Influence of mRNA C-19 vaccine dosing interval on the risk of myocarditis, 2024
Abstract
Myocarditis is the most salient serious adverse event following messenger RNA-based Covid-19 vaccines. The highest risk is observed after the second dose compared to the first, whereas the level of risk associated with more distant booster doses seems to lie in between. We aimed to assess the relation between dosing interval and the risk of myocarditis, for both the two-dose primary series and the third dose (first booster).
This matched case-control study included 7911 cases of myocarditis aged 12 or more in a period where approximately 130 million vaccine doses were administered. Here we show that longer intervals between each consecutive dose, including booster, may decrease the occurrence of vaccine-associated myocarditis by up to a factor of 4, especially under age 50.
These results suggest that a minimum 6-month interval might be required when scheduling additional booster vaccination.
LINK
Abstract
Myocarditis is the most salient serious adverse event following messenger RNA-based Covid-19 vaccines. The highest risk is observed after the second dose compared to the first, whereas the level of risk associated with more distant booster doses seems to lie in between. We aimed to assess the relation between dosing interval and the risk of myocarditis, for both the two-dose primary series and the third dose (first booster).
This matched case-control study included 7911 cases of myocarditis aged 12 or more in a period where approximately 130 million vaccine doses were administered. Here we show that longer intervals between each consecutive dose, including booster, may decrease the occurrence of vaccine-associated myocarditis by up to a factor of 4, especially under age 50.
These results suggest that a minimum 6-month interval might be required when scheduling additional booster vaccination.
LINK
perchance dreamer
Senior Member (Voting Rights)
I got a Novavax vaccine yesterday from the pharmacy chain CVS. I only noticed a few side effects.
My arm hurt for about 15 minutes, and I felt some prickles on my face, which quickly cleared up. Some eye irritation quickly cleared up, too. I felt more fatigue and achiness than usual, but I was back to baseline after a couple of hours.
Lots of people in my area are getting sick, so I'm glad to get this first vaccine done. I will also get the flu and RSV shots, but will stagger them, at my doctor's suggestion. He said, given my health history, that I should wait a month or so after each vaccine before getting the next.
My arm hurt for about 15 minutes, and I felt some prickles on my face, which quickly cleared up. Some eye irritation quickly cleared up, too. I felt more fatigue and achiness than usual, but I was back to baseline after a couple of hours.
Lots of people in my area are getting sick, so I'm glad to get this first vaccine done. I will also get the flu and RSV shots, but will stagger them, at my doctor's suggestion. He said, given my health history, that I should wait a month or so after each vaccine before getting the next.
Kitty
Senior Member (Voting Rights)
I've just booked in my Covid booster, but in the UK we don't usually know which vaccine we're getting till we turn up to the appointment.
Even the pharmacist doesn't know until the supply arrives, they dispense whichever gets delivered to them. I don't think it's usual for them to have more than one type in stock at any one time, so if you're worried about it the only real option is to ask a day or so ahead, and cancel the appointment if necessary.
I've only had a mild reaction to one of them, and as I've had the same brand twice since with no ill-effects, it probably doesn't make much difference.
Even the pharmacist doesn't know until the supply arrives, they dispense whichever gets delivered to them. I don't think it's usual for them to have more than one type in stock at any one time, so if you're worried about it the only real option is to ask a day or so ahead, and cancel the appointment if necessary.
I've only had a mild reaction to one of them, and as I've had the same brand twice since with no ill-effects, it probably doesn't make much difference.