Covid-19 vaccines and vaccinations

InitialConditions said:
I am thoroughly confused about the booster roll-out.

I was put in Group 6 back at the start of the year and had my second dose in early May. I only got a text about booking my booster last Friday—7 months after my second dose.

Have they got rid of the groups now and are just rolling out the booster in age order?
Click to expand...

I think they must have, because I got bumped up a couple of levels for the first two due to being a carer, but didn't get an invitation to book a booster until 7 months after my second jab.

BTW, a bit of information in relation to vaccines, boosters and Omicron (as we know at the moment):

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/coro...d-professor/ar-AARLDzZ?ocid=ASUDHP&li=AAnZ9Ug
 
Wits_End said:
I think they must have, because I got bumped up a couple of levels for the first two due to being a carer, but didn't get an invitation to book a booster until 7 months after my second jab.

BTW, a bit of information in relation to vaccines, boosters and Omicron (as we know at the moment):

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/coro...d-professor/ar-AARLDzZ?ocid=ASUDHP&li=AAnZ9Ug
Click to expand...
Really struggle with booster efficiency being touted as 70 to 75% if you have had AZ for both previous jags. Could be much lower
 
Rapid Response:
Evidence does not justify mandatory vaccines

https://www.bmj.com/content/375/bmj.n2957/rr-1

..some quotes...

As doctors and health professionals, many of whom work in the NHS, we would like to express our opposition to anti-SARS-CoV-2 vaccination being mandated for any group of people, including health and care workers.

Results from the randomised vaccine trials published so far suggested the vaccines were effective in reducing symptomatic infections for a few weeks. The average duration of follow-up for people in the first report from the Pfizer trial, on which licensing was based, was only 46 days, for example.

The recent report on data from people who had been in the trial for up to 6 months revealed that the mean total duration of follow-up for the primary outcome of the double-blind trial was 3.6 months for those who received the vaccine and 3.5 months for those allocated to placebo.

This suggests either that effects of vaccines wear off quickly, and/or that some bias crept into original trial procedures, possibly due to unblinding caused by vaccine reactions [6] or other procedural irregularities.

More alarmingly, third and fourth ‘booster’ shots have not been tested in any randomised trials, and other data on the efficacy and safety of administering further doses are scanty.

Long-term harms will be difficult to detect due to the short duration of the randomised trials, and will only become apparent in coming years.

and there is little data on adverse effects of booster shots, which is significant since there have long been safety concerns about repeated exposure to mRNA technology.
Click to expand...
 
Vaccines don't cause autoimmunity much anyway. And millions of people have been vaccinated and nothing significant reported. People with autoimmune disease are particularly likely to suffer if not vaccinated.

The piece is ill-informed. Interesting to see that the first author is a psychiatrist and that Peter Gotzsche is included.
 
A more general question: When vaccines were developed and tested in studies, did they know back then we will need boosters/third jabs?

The first time I remember this came up in the media was this summer with data from Israel.

Before that my impression was 2 jabs and you're done.

Got my 3rd today and wondering for how often this is going to be repeated...
 
Leila said:
A more general question: When vaccines were developed and tested in studies, did they know back then we will need boosters/third jabs?

The first time I remember this came up in the media was this summer with data from Israel.

Before that my impression was 2 jabs and you're done.

Got my 3rd today and wondering for how often this is going to be repeated...
Click to expand...

EDIT see @Trish comments below - I've had my booster and I pre-booked it to get the slot immediately I was eligible. OK this time it looks like a booster will (at a population level) work but generally I'm concerned that new variants will simply make a vaccine ineffective. New variants seem to be arriving at an alarming rate and I'm not convinced we can keep up (even in the wealthier countries).

Deleted text:
The efficacy of the vaccine, against the original variant e.g. after 1 year, seems to be pretty academic, since the new variant is highly transmissible in people vaccinated against the original variant. So, we seem to be in a cycle of needing new vaccines - I'm just hoping that the window doesn't drop to a point where the system can't keep up or that a new variant is highly transmissible and causes severe illness.

There's a theory that new strains may emerge in people who are vaccinated and immunocompromised (e.g. due to HIV); the virus isn't dealt with effectively and it keeps evolving, in the host, until it gets a combination which beats the vaccine.

Sort of highlights @Jonathan Edwards point that elimination is the way to go - New Zealand.
 
Last edited:
Our experts are saying the same thing, Corona might become like the flu where vulnerable people are recommended to get a jab every year to be protected from the current circulting mutation.

I'm wondering more about if this was foreseeable during the initial studies. I'm a complete layman and maybe that was clear to everyone who is more educated on the subject.

The message that I got here in Germany though up until summer in the media (by experts) was that you're "done" after two. Not to get sterilizing immunity, but to be protected enough so the pandamic will finally get to a flu like endemic.

So I'm wondering if they just didnt know better at that time or left that out for "PR" reasons.
 
Leila said:
Our experts are saying the same thing, Corona might become like the flu where vulnerable people are recommended to get a jab every year to be protected from the current circulting mutation.
Click to expand...

Yea the 1918 influenza pandemic was another influenza but it took a hell of a toll. I wonder if the models these guys are working from really have enough data --- the global transmission rates are so high this virus has the opportunity to check out a lot of combinations (variants).

Leila said:
I'm a complete layman
Click to expand...
I am too; I check out Independent Sage on Friday's - @Snow Leopard is my go to person. Still the fact that I consult reputable source doesn't mean I learn!
 
Leila said:
Our experts are saying the same thing, Corona might become like the flu where vulnerable people are recommended to get a jab every year to be protected from the current circulting mutation.

I'm wondering more about if this was foreseeable during the initial studies. I'm a complete layman and maybe that was clear to everyone who is more educated on the subject.

The message that I got here in Germany though up until summer in the media (by experts) was that you're "done" after two. Not to get sterilizing immunity, but to be protected enough so the pandamic will finally get to a flu like endemic.

So I'm wondering if they just didnt know better at that time or left that out for "PR" reasons.
Click to expand...
I am no vaccine expert but scientists go on the available science now and it depends on the government what it chooses to do and what it tells it’s people (often overly hopeful).

In NZ we have been fortunate enough to mostly watch the world have a pandemic due to fast lockdown, border restriction, elimination (but a relatively slow vaccine roll out, now going like the clappers with delta and now 81% of eligible pop vaccinated with most main pop areas above 90%), mandatory double Pfizer vaccination for the majority of the working pop, vaccine passes for most indoor activities, mask mandates and we are only just moving away from national lockdown with contact tracing to local which will really test our systems….

Also with summer holidays here - a big push to vaccinate age 5-12 before return to school in Feb and boosters starting in older age groups. We mostly have a compliant pop and good governance. They have never stated we had covid sorted, actually they apologised this week for not being prepared enough for delta, now we are awaiting omicron….and I suspect another vaccine drive for 3rd Pfizer doses will occur within 3-4 months. We are also fortunate that medicine to treat acute covid is now available and with all the restrictions etc has saved many lives where other countries lost so many. :cry:

I am not sure it will become like influenza, I think that is wishful thinking. I think virologists cannot predict the changes that may still occur and vaccines have to catch up with. That is why other measures just as important - masks, social distancing, ventilation etc, for many years.
 
Barry said:
Given that mutation rate is presumably related to transmission rate, I imagine one of the more significant risks with Omicron will be higher likelihood of further mutations.
Click to expand...

I wonder whether someone knowledgable can expand on transmission vs host factors on viral mutation.

Some potentially relevant papers (which I aim to read this evening):
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom