Covid-19 vaccines and vaccinations

ME should be on the list because many people are bedbound and rely on a series of careers coming in so are at high risk not just because of fatigue. They really don't equate with people with mild asthma. There is asthma in my family and I hope they get vaccinated soon but they have a choice and can avoid infection as much as possible whereas someone dependent on a carer cannot avoid risk.

I am glad she mentioned that ME worsens with infection in a way that the likes of MS do not. The framing of ME as psychological and behavioural is putting us at high risk again.

I am 66 now so I am in a higher category now but when I was milder and had young children it would have been a nightmare situation and there must be people going through that now. Dreadful.
 
Andy said:
Charities urge clarity over who qualifies for next UK vaccine wave



https://www.theguardian.com/society...y-over-who-qualifies-for-next-uk-vaccine-wave
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This article was posted today on the Guardian front page and continued on page 6. ME was the first example given on the front page of an illness left out (of group 6) i.e. vulnerable people not included in the JCVI priority groups.

Also on page 6 was an article headed "Not a priority? If I get long covid on top of ME, I might as well give up", accompanied by a large photo of a young woman with ME, as well as photos of others with different vulnerabilities. ( Article by Frances Ryan)

Interesting - ME was mentioned first on the front page, was the second case study inside and had the biggest photo, and the headline had long covid written in very large type alongside ME. Another example of times changing at the Guardian?

Front page article was by Sarah Marsh, Frances Ryan and Dan Sabbagh. Am not familiar with 2 of these names.

( I am currently struggling to form thoughts and write - this has taken ages- and am sure that there are other inferences to be drawn if anyone has time. very pleased to see Guardian continuing its change of course).

eta: prominence would have been an appropriate word to include here
 
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Wits_End said:
Probably relevant to the original question:

I'm an epidemiologist. I'll be glad to get whatever vaccine I'm offered (focuses on Australia)

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/health/me...im-offered/ar-BB1dJoZg?ocid=ASUDHP&li=AAnZ9Ug
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The author is missing the forest for the trees (as is easy to do as stated in the article). Any vaccine in your arm might have short-term benefit if the virus is currently circulating (which it is not in Australia), but the long term benefit is based on preventing spread and preventing disease with the highest efficacy. The AZ vaccine provides zero benefit if the virus is not circulating in Australia and does not have sufficient efficacy for the states to remove their test/trace/quarantine programmes. So I can't see why anyone would consider it useful over the alternatives.
 
Sean said:
Does getting one of the currently available vaccines have any implications for getting another (different better) one later on?
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Yes, it can, the "original antigenic sin", or Hoskins effect. If the circulating antibodies still work to prevent sufficient activity in germinal centres (despite poorer neutralising ability), then the major result of a subsequent vaccine will simply be as a 'booster', eg clonal expansion of existing B-cells, rather than any improvement in the neutralising quality of the antibodies.

Any vaccines down the track will need to be for variants with significantly different spike proteins, even more so than the current "South African variant".
 
I am a bit worried about getting vaccinated because I have a history of bad reactions to various drugs, (antibiotics in particular), not anaphalactic shock but once my eyelids and lips swelled up very badly, and it took 2 weeks to get under control.
I am currently still recovering from another allergic reaction (2 1/2 months ago) to I don't know what. I cannot take any kind of steroid medication, and anti-hystamine also cause problems.
The fact that I live on my own and have no outside help (although I can call on neighbours occasionally to do things, but could not get anyone to care for me if I go downhill for any period of time) adds to the dilemma.
I see that some people on the forum are now being offered the vaccine so I'm going to have make a decision soon.
 
InitialConditions said:
I have just been offered the vaccine after requesting to be put in Group 6 (using the ME Association letter). I am a little cautious of getting it with not knowing how it will affect me, but I will almost certainly go ahead and get it.
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The benefit really depends on what your risk of contracting the virus in the first place. If it is circulating significantly in your community (by that I mean people are contracting it in public from unknown contacts) then a vaccine dose usually outweighs the risks.
 
Snow Leopard said:
The benefit really depends on what your risk of contracting the virus in the first place. If it is circulating significantly in your community (by that I mean people are contracting it in public from unknown contacts) then a vaccine dose usually outweighs the risks.
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That's true, but that's just current risk. We don't know about the future. My current risk is probably low. I don't really go out that much.
 
InitialConditions said:
That's true, but that's just current risk. We don't know about the future. My current risk is probably low. I don't really go out that much.
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I live in the UK, and have a vulnerable family member, so yes keen to get them vaccinated (and me too). One of the issues would e.g. be ending up in hospital (for something other than covid) and picking up covid when you're there. OK you can limit your contacts to a greater/lesser extent but hospital visits (planned/unplanned), dentist ----
 
Sean said:
Does getting one of the currently available vaccines have any implications for getting another (different better) one later on?
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@Snow Leopard reply is much better but the short answer to me is no - e.g. they are talking of giving Pfizer/AstraZenica (almost) interchangeably in the UK. Also, my impression is that vaccination may be annual (new variants) so it may be a case of a new vaccine every year.
 
Sly Saint said:
I am a bit worried about getting vaccinated because I have a history of bad reactions to various drugs, (antibiotics in particular), not anaphalactic shock but once my eyelids and lips swelled up very badly, and it took 2 weeks to get under control.
I am currently still recovering from another allergic reaction (2 1/2 months ago) to I don't know what. I cannot take any kind of steroid medication, and anti-hystamine also cause problems.
The fact that I live on my own and have no outside help (although I can call on neighbours occasionally to do things, but could not get anyone to care for me if I go downhill for any period of time) adds to the dilemma.
I see that some people on the forum are now being offered the vaccine so I'm going to have make a decision soon.
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Haven't they been warning people who suffer from allergic reactions not to get (one or more of) the vaccine(s)?
 
I don't think this affects many people in the West but might be interesting to some in other countries whose government may have ordered from the Russian Sputnik vaccine. In Hungary this vaccine is not recommended for:

- people with chronic kidney or liver disease, endocrine diseases
- people with significantly abnormal thyroid values, not properly treated diabetes, hematologic diseases, epilepsy and diseases of the central nervous system, acute coronary syndrome, acute cerebrovascular event, myocarditis, endocarditis, pericarditis
- people with autoimmune diseases (stimulation of the immune system may lead to a flare and special caution is necessary for those patients whose autoimmune diseases can lead to a severe or life-threatening condition)
- people with malignant tumour

This is based on the unofficial instructions that came with the vaccine and was posted by the National Institute of Pharmacy and Nutrition and the Hungarian Medical Chamber.

The document in pdf in Hungarian: https://www.ogyei.gov.hu/dynamic/Sputnik V vakcina magyar nyelvu tajekoztato.pdf

However: there has been some debate that this is actually based on an older document from October and the newer Russian instructions only say we should be cautious with the above diseases, as opposed to not recommending the vaccine to these people at all.

Right now we use Pfizer-BioNtech, Moderna, Astrazeneca and ordered Sputnik and one of the Chinese vaccines (and I think some others too that haven't arrived yet). People are really not thrilled by the latter two at all, to say the least, and the Pfizer-BioNTech and the Moderna vaccines seem to have the biggest support. What may happen: most people reject the Russian and Chinese one, the ones that will be more available, and will wait for the ones that they trust more. So probably lots of money down the drain.)

As for me, I'll wait for those too, even if it takes a much longer time.
 
I had a phone call from my GP surgery yesterday offering the COVID vaccine. I said no thanks. Due to hearing difficulty at the time (just clearing up at last, I think) I'm not sure whether she asked whether I was saying no to ANY Covid vaccine, but I said no. Hopefully this won't mean that I can't have any Covid vaccine in future, in case things change.
 
For people in the UK:
The ME Association facebook page has just posted this:

Secretary of State for Health and Social Care, Matt Hancock on ME/CFS and Covid Vaccine Priority.
"I understand that currently ME is not listed as a specific condition in the priority list, and that those with “chronic neurological disease” are included in priority group 6.
"However, the JCVI has recently clarified that the examples of clinical risk groups listed in the “Green Book: Immunisations against infectious disease” are not exhaustive.
"Their advice states that within these Groups, clinical judgment should be applied to take into account the risk of COVID-19 exacerbating any underlying disease that a patient may have, as well as the risk of serious illness from COVID-19 itself.
"In all cases, you should speak with your GP if you feel you should be vaccinated sooner. I want to assure you that we are committed to vaccinating according to need, and you will not be left out or forgotten in this process..."
He also refers to ME Association guidance on this topic.
Mr Hancock then talks about the similarities between ME/CFS and Long Covid and the need for more research in this area.
The updated MEA Template Letter re: Covid Vaccine Priority in ME/CFS can be downloaded here:
https://meassociation.org.uk/.../ME-Association-Covid...
We have also reproduced the letter in full in this earlier blog:
https://meassociation.org.uk/.../vaccine-priority-list.../
#MECFS #PwME #CovidVaccine #VaccinePriority #Group6 #MattHancock
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Wonko said:
That seems like a lot of words to say precisely nothing useful, and in so doing avoid clarifying what he means, if anything, or make a decision, one way or the other.
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I think the key thing from the MEA is the template letter linked in that FB post.
 
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