Coronavirus - worldwide spread and control

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Hip said:
I appreciate it has not been tested, but that does not mean it will not work. Though I take your point about the alcohol perhaps not reaching all nooks and crannies of the mask and the dirt therein. In this respect, oven heat would be a more effective way to sterilize a mask.

Yes true, there is a difference between disinfection (reducing microbial levels) and sterilization (killing all microbes).

Though if you reduce viral levels enough, that also greatly helps prevent getting an infection. In the above paper I mentioned, ethanol was able to reduce viral infectivity of the SARS coronavirus by 5 log (a 100,000-fold reduction) after just 30 seconds.
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I am done arguing with you @Hip. You are wrong.
 
Milo said:
I am done arguing with you @Hip. You are wrong.
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Well the doctor in China said using alcohol to disinfect a mask was viable, in the article I linked to earlier:

Face masks can be used repeatedly after disinfection: doctors
Huang Ching-tai (黃景泰), chief of the Infectious Diseases Division at Chang Gung Memorial Hospital in Linkou, said, meanwhile, that spraying alcohol on both sides of a used mask also allows a mask to be worn again as long as it was not damaged or contaminated.
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Secondhand masks have been scientifically proven to have less filtration functions but are still usable, Huang said.

The doctors' advice came in the wake of reports of shortages of surgical masks as the government pledged to roll out new mask production lines to meet the surging demand.
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The biggest problem for me (here in California and with a relative recently--3 weeks back from SE China) is fear.

I pigged out on high fat, high sugar desserts yesterday. Same self-soothing attempts during the local firestorms the last 3 years.

Hope I don't blow a clot of plaque while waiting for Covid-19 to hit (or not).

The human brain wants to problem solve this, for the sake of survival. But gaps of knowledge exist about how the virus spreads, how infective it is.

Will it be a worldwide pandemic (like influenza of 1957 and 1968, both of which I survived but suffered)?

What is the death rate?

Can it be spread by people infected but without symptoms? Is it spread only by respiratory droplets or aerosol or also by body fluids?

Can it be contained through quarantines or is it a pandemic like influenza and not containable?

Should I be reading responsible news outlets twice a day, or hold off.

What we don't know leads to high levels of fear.

I think stocking up on food and other essentials (if one can) feels good, feels right. In fact, taking action decreases fear, gives the illusion of agency or control.

I told myself that I will do everything I can to avoid contagion, but in the end, fate will decide.
I'm okay with that today.

Edit: WHO website advice ttps://www.who.int/emergencies/diseases/novel-coronavirus-2019/advice-for-public
 
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Why would you want to sterilize or disinfect a single use mask?

Apart from all the other snags noted by those better informed than me I reckon, even wearing gloves you are more likely to accidentally spread pathogens onto the inside of the mask or onto the band holding it onto your head.

You're also more likely to get pathogens on your clothes, skin or possibly transfer onto surrounding surfaces.

Could it also be possible to knock some off the surface of the mask making them briefly airborne so you can inhale them?

If you're worried enough to wear a mask then simply dispose of it sensibly & replace with a fresh one. Or go the whole hog with a reuseable mask and carefully observe cleaning procedures.

If it's important enough to wear it then surely it's important enough not to negate the benefits of wearing it by then not following best practice disposal advice?
 
Invisible Woman said:
Why would you want to sterilize or disinfect a single use mask?
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Because of a shortage and thus the high cost of face masks. You may want to wear a fresh mask daily, but you might not be able to get hold of them for a reasonable price.

In China there is a shortage because unsurprisingly everyone is buying them. This mask shortage will undoubtedly hit other countries if the virus takes hold in them.

Even at present, on the UK eBay, disposable FFP3 masks that you would normally pick up for about 50 pence each are now selling for £5 to £10 each, for just one single mask.



Invisible Woman said:
If you're worried enough to wear a mask then simply dispose of it sensibly & replace with a fresh one. Or go the whole hog with a reuseable mask and carefully observe cleaning procedures.
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I believe with reusable rubber respirator masks, you still are supposed to replace the filters every 30 hours of use (and those filters are expensive), so I am not sure if these offer any cost advantages over the disposable FFP3 masks. Though I imagine the rubber respirator will provide a more snug fit to the face.



I also enquired yesterday in my local chemist in London about alcohol-based hand sanitizers, and they told me these are completely sold out, and they cannot get hold of any more.
 
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Hip said:
Because of a shortage and thus the high cost of face masks. You may want to wear a fresh mask daily, but you might not be able to get hold of them for a reasonable price.
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I can see that, but you're still increasing your risk of spreading the pathogen around in an attempt to clean a mask that wasn't designed to be cleaned. Worse still, you're potentially spreading the pathogen inside your own home.

I know the reusable ones will be more expensive. Then there's cost of replacement filters. I get that. However, by not using the mask the way it was designed and recommended for use you may simply be negating any benefit from having had a mask in the first place.

In addition, for those who do this and live in shared accommodation, you may inadvertently infect other people who live in the same space.
 
No one would consider reusing condoms for any reason (shortage or cost) by cleaning them with bleach or isopropyl alcohol... just a thought.
 
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Invisible Woman said:
I can see that, but you're still increasing your risk of spreading the pathogen around in an attempt to clean a mask that wasn't designed to be cleaned. Worse still, you're potentially spreading the pathogen inside your own home.
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I am not sure I see the logic of that.

I am assuming that people want to wear masks to protect themselves from inhaling virus from infected people. If you think you actually have the virus you need to do more than wear a mask - get medical advice and self-isolate etc.

If you are trying to protect yourself from infection there is no reason why your mask should be contaminated any more than clothes, furniture, doorknobs, carpet, shopping bags...everything. There is no more reason to throw away a mask then the rest of these.

It may be pointless sterilising a mask but it makes some sense to me. Other things like clothes you wash regularly. Your face and body can be showered down daily. Tissues you throw away. If out and about regularly a re-used mask might be the one thing that does not get cleaned. And you are going to put it back on your face.

To me the rationale for wearing a mask is that if someone coughs in your face in the supermarket or on the train you have a slightly better chance of not getting infected. The specifications required for surgical masks in theatre or an isolation room are probably not necessary.
 
Even a disposable mask, @Jonathan Edwards?

Your clothes are designed to be washed and are for warmth and cover rather than protection against germs.

Or are you saying that your clothes are just as likely to get the virus on them as the mask? Therefore just as likely to be a source of infection. So why bother with a mask, at all? Especially, if a person doesn't actually need to be coughing or sneezing to infect you. Just exchanging breathed air - like in a packed bus or tube.

If that's the case then using your shoulder or whatever, rather than your hands would make little difference when scratching an itch.
 
Invisible Woman said:
Or are you saying that your clothes are just as likely to get the virus on them as the mask? Therefore just as likely to be a source of infection. So why bother with a mask, at all? Especially, if a person doesn't actually need to be coughing or sneezing to infect you. Just exchanging breathed air - like in a packed bus or tube.

If that's the case then using your shoulder or whatever, rather than your hands would make little difference when scratching an itch.
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It is all a matter of likelihoods. Clothes are as likely as masks to get infection on from the air but hands are much more likely to pick up virus from handholds that infected people have just used and I think viruses survive much better on moist skin than on cloth. Hence it is probably better to scratch an itch with clothes than hands. It is also difficult to do so you are discouraged and keep remembering to be careful.

Clothes are not as likely a source of infection as a mask if you wash them regularly and don't breathe through them (which most of us don't except for scarves maybe).

If just breathing air is the route of transmission then masks are no good unless they are high spec anyway. But in operating theatres we do not use high spec masks. They are there to prevent droplet spread. From what I know of this people think droplets and touched objects are particularly relevant to viral spread.

At the moment I think a very good reason to wear a mask is to remind everyone else how careful we need to be. They are now talking about the virus quite likely spreading widely in the UK and presumably other Western countries. If the time to death in fatal cases is two weeks or more then it looks to me increasingly as if for anyone who is ill with the virus the mortality rate may be as high as one in twenty, maybe even one in ten. That is seriously concerning. Anything people can do to slow down spread must be good. If masks are out of stock then re-using may be necessary.
 
Trish said:
Perhaps one of the values of wearing a mask is while wearing it you can't touch your nose or mouth, so are less likely to transfer whatever you have picked up on your hands while out straight to nose or mouth. Perhaps wearing goggles would help for the same reason.
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I'd either have to wear an entire goldfish bowl over my head, or boxing gloves on my hands, before I could remember not to touch my face for more than 12 consecutive seconds! #MEbrain :laugh:
 
Trish said:
Perhaps one of the values of wearing a mask is while wearing it you can't touch your nose or mouth, so are less likely to transfer whatever you have picked up on your hands while out straight to nose or mouth. Perhaps wearing goggles would help for the same reason.
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Yes, that occurred to me too. In that respect, even a simple surgical mask might be useful.


But I was thinking of another strategy to prevent pathogens on the hands getting into the mouth, nose or eyes:

Applying a diluted povidone-iodine solution to the hands before you go out. If you dilute the solution down to around 0.25% to 1%, you will not even get a brown iodine stain on the hands (I've tried it).

Unlike alcohol which only disinfects the hands there and then, applying povidone-iodine to the hands will disinfect the hands there and then, but also continue to disinfect them for hours to come. This is because the povidone-iodine molecule releases its iodine slowly over several hours.

So if you are out and about, and pick up some coronavirus contamination on your hands, the povidone-iodine you previously applied your hands may rapidly disinfect it. Can't hurt, anyway.

I would be careful with 10% povidone-iodine though, as there is quite a bit of systemic absorption of iodine over time. I calculated that if you place 1 ml of 10% povidone-iodine on your skin, you will slowly absorb about 5000 mcg of iodine. For comparison, a high-dose iodine supplement is about 15,000 mcg.
 
Mij said:
Report says he took an Uber to the hospital.
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It was a her but yes.
What annoys me is that some government chap criticised her for this saying we should all be following the guidance. But where is this guidance to be found? Why is it not read out on the BBC and ITV news and printed on the top of all paper and online newspapers? We are in a situation equivalent to war (not just imaginary weapons of mass destruction) so public information should be efficient.
 
Well, it appears now that the Princess Diamond cruise ship has become an incubator for the virus rather than a good place for quarantine. According to a Virologist at McGill, the ship is the second most contagious spot on the planet for coronavirus, after China, according to epidemiological data.
 
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