1. Guest, click here to read the 'News in Brief' post for w/c 7th Oct.
    Dismiss Notice

Coming soon; BBC Radio 4 investigation into IAPT Sep 2019

Discussion in 'Advocacy Action Alerts' started by Sly Saint, Sep 18, 2019.

  1. Sly Saint

    Sly Saint Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    3,495
    Likes Received:
    29,631
    Location:
    UK
    Dr Mike Scott (CBT watch):

    When You Do Nothing, Repeated Testing Will Likely Indicate ‘Recovery’ or ‘Remission’ At Some Point

    from Comments:
    reply
    so paper with Keith Geraghty also on the way.

    http://www.cbtwatch.com/when-you-do...recovery-or-remission-at-some-point/#comments

    eta: dates as per next post
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2019
  2. Dx Revision Watch

    Dx Revision Watch Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    875
    Likes Received:
    5,620
    Location:
    UK
    Thanks for flagging this up @Sly Saint

    On 18 September, Mike Scott posted dates in the Comments to his blog:

    "The broadcasts are as below

    Broadcasts

    Next Tuesday
    20:00
    BBC RADIO 4

    Sun 29 Sep 2019
    17:00
    BBC RADIO 4

    Will do a blog"
     
  3. Sly Saint

    Sly Saint Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    3,495
    Likes Received:
    29,631
    Location:
    UK
    The therapy business
    File on 4
    BBC reporter Jordan Dunbar (pictured) investigates the therapy industry after a bad experience when he sought help for his mental health in the private sector.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m0008nxl

    (same prog both dates/times ie Tues 24th Sep 20.00, Sun 29 Sep 17.00)
     
    Simbindi, Andy, Sarah94 and 10 others like this.
  4. rvallee

    rvallee Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    2,469
    Likes Received:
    19,964
    Location:
    Canada
    I wonder what arguments the evangelists of IAPT will use when it starts getting too obvious that the whole thing is a massive dumpster fire. Eventually the people who expect savings will start getting antsy about not getting anything for their money and being annoyed at growing discontent. Morale will also drop precipitously when success has to be faked with cherry-picking and selective reporting that simply ignores anything bad.

    My guess is probably argue the project should be expanded even further, that the failure is simply because the implementation is too timid. Wonder if it will lead to attempts at making it coercive, probably at some point. Question is how people react to that, but money will likely be the deciding factor in the end.

    But more and more I think it's obvious that all the circling-the-wagon about the abysmal psychosocial research in ME is entirely caused by us being the proving grounds for this. Showing failure is simply unacceptable since our "success" is the very foundation of the project.

    At least Icarus actually flew. This bloated carcass can't even get off the ground.
     
    Annamaria, JemPD, Arnie Pye and 3 others like this.
  5. NelliePledge

    NelliePledge Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    4,006
    Likes Received:
    26,864
    Location:
    UK East Midlands
    They will just continue to try to blag their way through it’s worked so far for them.
     
    Annamaria, JemPD, Andy and 2 others like this.
  6. Sean

    Sean Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    1,735
    Likes Received:
    14,452
    I am interested in seeing the reactions from other specialities in medicine when the delay in them being able to diagnose and treat caused by the IAPT madness starts killing off patients who could have easily been saved.

    Sadly that is what it will probably take.

    Bet those responsible for it all will never be held to account.
     
    Andy, Sarah94, Wonko and 3 others like this.
  7. Sly Saint

    Sly Saint Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    3,495
    Likes Received:
    29,631
    Location:
    UK
    On tonight.

    http://www.cbtwatch.com/bbc-investigates-the-therapy-business/

    (see previous post for link)
     
    Annamaria, Gecko, Trish and 3 others like this.
  8. NelliePledge

    NelliePledge Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    4,006
    Likes Received:
    26,864
    Location:
    UK East Midlands
    Oh dear wonder if it will be rescheduled given the big news today.
     
    John Mac likes this.
  9. TiredSam

    TiredSam Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    6,438
    Likes Received:
    31,484
    Location:
    Germany
    MEMarge, JohnM, Sarah94 and 5 others like this.
  10. Sarah94

    Sarah94 Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    1,056
    Likes Received:
    2,935
    Location:
    UK
    What happened?
     
    Hutan likes this.
  11. ukxmrv

    ukxmrv Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    481
    Likes Received:
    3,367
    So far they are talking about bad experiences of therapy as an individual thing i.e. what happens if someone has a psych problem and they aren't happy with a therapy session or a course of therapy. It's more about how to deal with "bad therapists" and so far how to find one that is registered and how to complain.

    Problems navigating the process. Choosing a therapist who meets BACP standards.

    Now a woman who was sexually abused as a child and now sexually abused by a therapist. The focus is on private therapists. Her therapist was sacked by the NHS but still sees private patients at £60 ph.

    As there is a long waiting list on the NHS people are paying to see private ones.

    Now onto regulation. People are calling themselves psychotherapists or therapists without qualification. Complainers are not believed.

    Now saying how many NHS beds are being occupied by people needing psych care. Film from 1966.


    CBT - training can be bought online and "accredited" for £29.00

    The presenter did an "advanced diploma" and when he failed it gave him the correct answers to write down and try again.

    The course tells him how to get patients

    Back onto regulation. Complaints process for membership bodies found wanting. People can be diagnosed with a personality disorder to turn a blind eye on complaints.

    Now on to attitudes. Film from 1966 saying how many NHS beds are being occupied by people needing mental care....

    Back to online fake therapists/therapies. Presenter has bought online apps to treat insomnia. No one takes ownership. "wild west".

    The program so far doesn't sound at all like the original description. Maybe the wrong dates given?
     
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2019
    TiredSam, Lisa108, EzzieD and 3 others like this.
  12. Sly Saint

    Sly Saint Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    3,495
    Likes Received:
    29,631
    Location:
    UK
    No mention of IAPT, no 'interview' with Mike Scott.
    Mostly about lack of regulation of private therapists and patients who have suffered as a consequence.
    In fact he was very complementary about the NHS service (said he enjoyed CBT) in that at least you knew the therapists were 'properly trained' and had the relevent qualifications. The only real criticism was about waiting times for treatment.

    But it was mostly about the fact that anyone can set themselves up as a private psychotherapist and that there was no real mechanism for redress.

    The only parallel I see for us is with the quacks who claim to be able to treat ME and businesses like the LP and OHC.
     
    TiredSam, EzzieD, Hutan and 5 others like this.
  13. Simbindi

    Simbindi Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    460
    Likes Received:
    3,018
    Location:
    Somerset, England
    Mike has written about this on his website (as a comment response):

    http://www.cbtwatch.com/bbc-investigates-the-therapy-business/#comments
     
    TiredSam, Chezboo, obeat and 15 others like this.
  14. chrisb

    chrisb Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    2,092
    Likes Received:
    14,049
    Afraid Mike failed to take account of a significant factor. It is the BBC. They usually live down to expectations.
     
  15. Amw66

    Amw66 Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    2,584
    Likes Received:
    12,968
    He is in good company. Jane Colby is invariably edited out too.
     
    TiredSam, Chezboo, Sarah94 and 3 others like this.
  16. Simbindi

    Simbindi Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    460
    Likes Received:
    3,018
    Location:
    Somerset, England
    IAPT is both NHS England's and the DWP's 'baby'. It will take a lot of work to publically expose the problems inherent in the IAPT model.

    In the meantime it won't just be those with 'medically unexplained symptoms' being damaged by the lack of proper medical care, but also those with serious and significant mental health problems will be suffering from increasingly inappropriate services and diminishing effective ones. These are the 2 sides to the same coin - money will be taken from other mental health services (such as those supporting the most severely affected needing longterm services) to support the IAPT expansion. All to give the appearance the government is 'putting mental health on a par with physical health'.

    Welcome to the brave new world of modern England.
     
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2019
    TiredSam, Chezboo, obeat and 8 others like this.
  17. Esther12

    Esther12 Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    3,245
    Likes Received:
    26,866
    It probably made no difference, but imo it's worth not giving any advance warning to powerful figures if you think that there's going to be a media story critical of them, especially at an institution like the BBC.
     
  18. rvallee

    rvallee Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    2,469
    Likes Received:
    19,964
    Location:
    Canada
    Doesn't look like an investigation but rather as commentary bordering on promotional.
     
    Chezboo, Sarah94, Wonko and 1 other person like this.
  19. Simbindi

    Simbindi Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    460
    Likes Received:
    3,018
    Location:
    Somerset, England
    Yes, it was almost as if he was promoting the need for an expansion of IAPT, since IAPT is the only way left for patients in England with mild-moderate mental health conditions (that is those under primary, rather than secondary or tertiary care) to receive NHS pyschological therapies.

    The final production may not have had sinister undertones in itself - if it wasn't for the fact that we know the presenter had formally interviewed Mike Scott as part of the original recordings for this broadcast. I expect the editing out of any IAPT critque has shocked us less than Mike himself - it's just 'business as usual' to us!
     
    Sarah94, Amw66, Hutan and 3 others like this.
  20. JemPD

    JemPD Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    793
    Likes Received:
    6,634
    This is exactly what happened to a dear friend of mine who has severe & enduring psychological injury - trauma related. She was having psychotherapy which she said was really helping & had lead to some easily observable changes & improvements, but in the middle of the process they disbanded the service (providing long term therapy for those with more complex issues) to make way for IAPT.
    All the therapists were made redundant in favour of employing less expensive & less well trained/experienced people. And she was just abandoned because at assessment by the new service she was deemed 'too complex' for the new short-term-therapy-only service, and there isn't anything else, so she's without anything at all.
     

Share This Page