Cold or PEM?

M

MinIreland

Senior Member (Voting Rights)
I am experiencing something new and I'm not sure how to interpret it. Recently, I stopped most of my anti depressants, and my head started to feel clearer in a subtle way. I actually started to improve. Last week I was feeling so well, that I almost started hoping that the extreme fatigue had been caused by the meds instead of it being ME/CFS. I probably was a bit overly enthusiastic, as I started to feel worse over the last couple of days (I was home alone with my children and had to get up early, and just had more on my plate). Last night, I couldn't sleep, my throat started to hurt, and my nose got blocked. I had a friend over who had a cold, so I thought he gave it to me.

But today, I wonder if it's PEM, because i feel like I have the flu (without the fever). My joints hurt, I feel absolutely floored, it's hard to hold my phone to type this. I still have a bit of a stuffy nose and a sore throat.

I wonder, because I've never had this before, could this be PEM? Or could it be that you respond a bit stronger to a cold virus when you have ME?

I know no-one can be certain, but I just wonder what your experience is.
 
I often find it hard to distinguish between PEM and an incipient virus. All I can do is rest and see what transpires.

Obviously with children you won’t always have the option to rest when you need to, and we can’t rule something else is happening. Also I wonder, given your body is adjusting to changes in medication, could this be a factor.
 
MinIreland said:
But today, I wonder if it's PEM, because i feel like I have the flu (without the fever). My joints hurt, I feel absolutely floored, it's hard to hold my phone to type this.
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See if it's improved tomorrow. There's a lot of 'flu about, so it's still possible it IS that—you don't always get a raised temperature.

It's sometimes distinctive because of the rapid way it comes on. You can be feeling quite normal, but within two or three hours become really unwell. And it doesn't always have the streaming nose, annoying cough and sore eyes you can get with colds.
 
Kitty said:
See if it's improved tomorrow. There's a lot of 'flu about, so it's still possible it IS that—you don't always get a raised temperature.

It's sometimes distinctive because of the rapid way it comes on. You can be feeling quite normal, but within two or three hours become really unwell. And it doesn't always have the streaming nose, annoying cough and sore eyes you can get with colds.
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Yes, the sudden onset was there. I went to bed and suddenly felt very restless and awake. Then, boom, my throat started to hurt and my nose felt stuffed. O told myself I was probably getting a cold. But then this morning I was at the supermarket and suddenly I felt absolutely knackered. My limbs were very heavy and my joints sore. I knew I had to stop and rest.
 
Unless someone has a test, I can't see how they can tell whether such symptoms are flu, a bad cold, Covid, or some other infection or PEM. I guess seeing whether any of your family go down with it too might give you a clue.

In my case I sometimes struggle to distinguish between a migraine and PEM, especially as my PEM often includes a migraine. Duration and other symtoms help me tell the difference. I don't get the runny nose or sore throat with PEM.

I hope whatever it is clears up soon.
 
Trish said:
Unless someone has a test, I can't see how they can tell whether such symptoms are flu, a bad cold, Covid, or some other infection or PEM. I guess seeing whether any of your family go down with it too might give you a clue.

In my case I sometimes struggle to distinguish between a migraine and PEM, especially as my PEM often includes a migraine. Duration and other symtoms help me tell the difference. I don't get the runny nose or sore throat with PEM.

I hope whatever it is clears up soon.
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I actually did a COVID test, ha ha. Because I felt this knackered when I had COVID in 2023 as well. Test was negative.

I get your point. You can only make some notes and figure it out in the process or draw a conclusion afterwards.

If it wouldn't all be so annoying and frustrating, it would be fascinating. Why do you get migraines and other people a sore throat etc? Probably has to do with 'vulnerabilities' in our system. I can only hope for you that you don't have migraines often. I honestly think a runny nose and generally feeling unwell are easier to deal with than migraines.
 
MinIreland said:
I am experiencing something new and I'm not sure how to interpret it. Recently, I stopped most of my anti depressants, and my head started to feel clearer in a subtle way. I actually started to improve. Last week I was feeling so well, that I almost started hoping that the extreme fatigue had been caused by the meds instead of it being ME/CFS. I probably was a bit overly enthusiastic, as I started to feel worse over the last couple of days (I was home alone with my children and had to get up early, and just had more on my plate). Last night, I couldn't sleep, my throat started to hurt, and my nose got blocked. I had a friend over who had a cold, so I thought he gave it to me.

But today, I wonder if it's PEM, because i feel like I have the flu (without the fever). My joints hurt, I feel absolutely floored, it's hard to hold my phone to type this. I still have a bit of a stuffy nose and a sore throat.

I wonder, because I've never had this before, could this be PEM? Or could it be that you respond a bit stronger to a cold virus when you have ME?

I know no-one can be certain, but I just wonder what your experience is.
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:hug: :hug::hug:
 
MinIreland said:
I am experiencing something new and I'm not sure how to interpret it. Recently, I stopped most of my anti depressants, and my head started to feel clearer in a subtle way. I actually started to improve. Last week I was feeling so well, that I almost started hoping that the extreme fatigue had been caused by the meds instead of it being ME/CFS. I probably was a bit overly enthusiastic, as I started to feel worse over the last couple of days (I was home alone with my children and had to get up early, and just had more on my plate). Last night, I couldn't sleep, my throat started to hurt, and my nose got blocked. I had a friend over who had a cold, so I thought he gave it to me.

I wonder, because I've never had this before, could this be PEM? Or could it be that you respond a bit stronger to a cold virus when you have ME?
Click to expand...
Ah, the eternal question! As others have said, it's just a wait-and-see situation. It will become clear, or clearer, either because the symptoms reveal themselves to be unequivocally those of a cold or flu, or as @Trish says, others in your house will get it from you. Or not.

The good news is that regardless of which it is, the main thing you need to do is the same - rest and be really nice to yourself.

My experience is that since getting ME/CFS, any infection floors me in a way it just wouuldn't have before. Even more so if it strikes at a time when I've been doing more than usual, or am already PEM'd. And if I do have an infection, and start feeling better, I have learned not to do much for a while because PEM is easier to trigger and worse until the infection is really and truly gone.

If it is an infection, I find treating any treatable bits more important than pre-ME/CFS, because you just feel so bad. If my head's sore, I take paracetamol. If my throat's sore, I do salt gargles (prepared by someone else - 1/2 teaspoon table salt stirred into 1 cup of boiling water ; baking measures, not random spoons and mugs). Let it cool until it's warm rather than hot and then gargle it and spit it out. If I'm miserable with congestion, I'll use Otrivine spray (3 days only). I don't usually get coughs, but did a few years ago and it was horrible - no sleep and so much exertion. I can't take most cough bottles but eventually in desperation sent someone out and they found one I could take. I wanted to marry it. Got proper sleep again. Cough cleared up.

Rest up and hopefully you will feel better soon.
 
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PS This will not be relevant for you if you tapered off your anti-depressants very gradually, but flu-like symptoms are listed as ones that can occur when anti-depressants are discontinued:

www.health.harvard.edu

Going Off Antidepressants - Harvard Health Publishing - Harvard Health

People who have been taking antidepressants for some time may wish to stop taking them due to unpleasant side effects. This can be accomplished, but it is best to taper the dosage slowly and be awa...
www.health.harvard.edu www.health.harvard.edu

https://www.rcpsych.ac.uk/mental-health/treatments-and-wellbeing/stopping-antidepressants (see appendix 2)

So if what you're experiencing doesn't seem to line up with either a cold or PEM, it could be worth talking to whoever prescribed the drugs about what they recommend.
 
MinIreland said:
I am experiencing something new and I'm not sure how to interpret it. Recently, I stopped most of my anti depressants, and my head started to feel clearer in a subtle way. I actually started to improve. Last week I was feeling so well, that I almost started hoping that the extreme fatigue had been caused by the meds instead of it being ME/CFS. I probably was a bit overly enthusiastic, as I started to feel worse over the last couple of days (I was home alone with my children and had to get up early, and just had more on my plate). Last night, I couldn't sleep, my throat started to hurt, and my nose got blocked. I had a friend over who had a cold, so I thought he gave it to me.

But today, I wonder if it's PEM, because i feel like I have the flu (without the fever). My joints hurt, I feel absolutely floored, it's hard to hold my phone to type this. I still have a bit of a stuffy nose and a sore throat.

I wonder, because I've never had this before, could this be PEM? Or could it be that you respond a bit stronger to a cold virus when you have ME?

I know no-one can be certain, but I just wonder what your experience is.
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If you are in the UK you may well have the hideous cold bug that is going round. It feels like flu but not quite and it feels like a cold as well. It is absolutely exhausting. I have had it for 3 weeks so far. The day before I went down with it, I actually started cleaning my house.... vigorously. I always seem to feel brilliant just before I get ill with a bug, and I always forget that that is why I feel brilliant. I know it is a bug and not PEM from the cleaning, because my husband has it too. Have been on the Night Nurse and starting to improve now. Take care.
 
So perhaps to clarify a bit for @MinIreland—with mild/moderate illness there are two patterns (among others!):
  • You feel better for a few days, sometimes for no obvious reason. You do more, then you get PEM. This often starts with 'flu-like symptoms.

  • You pick up a viral illness, which makes you feel much better for a couple of days. Then you feel really unwell, because you've got a virus.
The differences between the two can be so slight that it's effectively impossible to know until after the fact. But as @Spartacus says, sometimes viral illness can be identified by the sheer degree of improvement. I sometimes feel completely well during that time.


ETA: sorry, had to edit this because I accidentally pressed the keyboard command that posts the message before you've finished writing it. Again. :rolleyes:
 
MrMagoo said:
I recently did a Covid test on my PEM.
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Ha ha! I did this a few years ago. My carer B was still testing positive but had to start looking after me as carer A was out of the country. Carer B had had mild symptoms and they had passed, but still, I wasn't thrilled to be exposed to someone testing positive. So when I started feeling coldy/fluey a few days in, I thought, here we go. Turns out, I was just PEM'd from doing more so that they didn't go into my bedroom!
 
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