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CD24 expression and B cell maturation shows a novel link with energy metabolism: potential implications for patients with ME/CFS, 2018, Mensah et al

Discussion in 'BioMedical ME/CFS Research' started by Andy, Oct 2, 2018.

  1. Andy

    Andy Committee Member (& Outreach when energy allows)

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    Currently abstract only at moment at https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fimmu.2018.02421/abstract
     
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  2. obeat

    obeat Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    There's a bit more about this in Cort Johnson recent blog on SCMI Ramsay awards.
     
  3. Cheshire

    Cheshire Moderator Staff Member

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  4. Adrian

    Adrian Administrator Staff Member

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    I wondered if the comment on energy metabolism would relate to the recent work on metabolism but not had a chance to read yet.
     
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  5. Marky

    Marky Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    I struggled to understand what they found out in this paper (in layman`s terms), anyone help?:D
     
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  6. John Mac

    John Mac Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Perhaps @Jonathan Edwards might like to respond
     
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  7. Andy

    Andy Committee Member (& Outreach when energy allows)

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    I think this IiME blog by Jo Cambridge is about this study?
    http://www.investinme.org/ce-blog-1...a2OpOl5i6Gi75zQs9yiIjhwbq93r0h0Nk0QhgGj90rx8c
     
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  8. Marky

    Marky Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Thanks for sharing, that was a bit easier to understand! So they concluded that the abnormal expression might be due to the patient b cells trying to function normally? Considering Ritux didnt show significant effect in phase 3, some sort of downstream adaptation makes some sense i guess.

    Man all these abnormalities puzzles me.. That they can be so many and that were still in limbo trying to close in on the causative events. Can`t wait till someone figures it out
     
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  9. Sunshine3

    Sunshine3 Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Is there anything working right in our M.E bodies??
     
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  10. Mithriel

    Mithriel Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    If we are not producing enough ATP because of an impaired aerobic system (so we get 2 ATP instead of 36 for every oxygen molecule) then it makes sense that nothing in our bodies works properly.

    It is like a fault in the generator supplying energy to a house. The fridge will work as long as the cooker isn't on, using the hoover will stop the TV and so on.
     
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  11. Trish

    Trish Moderator Staff Member

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    I think that should be ''for every glucose molecule''. I agree with the gist of your post - if we have a malfunctioning energy metabolism, it is likely to have effects everywhere, but I'm not sure it's quite as simple as 2 instead of 36.

    If we only used glycolysis (which produces 2ATP and doesn't use oxygen), then presumably we wouldn't need to breathe! As I understand it, we bypass the use of glucose in the mitochondria to some extent by utilising fats and amino acids (from protein), so we still have some mitochondrial energy production which uses oxygen. And I think the suggestion is that glucose metabolism in the mitochondria is reduced rather than stopped altogether.
     
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  12. Mithriel

    Mithriel Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Yes, got it wrong. I know these things then I try to say it and get it upside down, ME brain. I don't think all our cells are affected, that is why we are all so different. If only 10% of cells in each system is affected then it will work fine until a demand is made on it where it will reach a limit quickly.

    I have psoriasis, an autoimmune disease where the skin cells grow too quickly, but it only appears in patches. In MS, only some nerve cells are demyelinated even if the immune system wrongly attacks. Very possible this is happening in ME.

    In type 1 diabetes, the entire pancreas is not attacked at once either. Strange when you think about it. It is only things like a peanut allergy which cause an overwhelming reaction of the immune system. I wish I could work as a researcher, there are so many questions I would like to answer.
     
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  13. Amw66

    Amw66 Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    I agree that ME is the body running in an " energy conservation mode". Low T3 would also point to this. Low magnesium/ calcium issues affects cellular pumps, and if ATP is involved in distress purnergic signalling it may compound issues.
    How each person downregulates, and how this is modulated may be affected by gene expression ( and potentially epigenetic gene expression) - hence why manifestations are different and different things affect different people.
    I think there will be a number of common pathways uncovered as science develops the " tools" needed to unpick things.
     
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  14. strategist

    strategist Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Does anyone understand how these findings relate to ME/CFS?
     
  15. Jonathan Edwards

    Jonathan Edwards Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Interesting to see that this is the most viewed paper in the journal this year. It seems that people are interested in the science of ME after all.

    I think the point is that (1) there seems to be a shift in young B cell populations involving the marker CD24. (2) much of the paper is about CD24 being involved in diverting cells down one metabolic pathway rather than another. The implication as I see it is that if we are looking for some general metabolic shift in ME then maybe CD24 is a marker of how that is affecting the immune response.
     
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  16. Marco

    Marco Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    There's that senescence thing popping up again (my para breaks) :


    Old B cells; old muscles etc :

    https://www.s4me.info/threads/old-m...fatigue-syndrome-2018-pietrangelo-et-al.6393/
     
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  17. Andy

    Andy Committee Member (& Outreach when energy allows)

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    https://meaustralia.net/2018/11/14/...-immune-dysfunction-and-metabolism-in-me/amp/
     
  18. wastwater

    wastwater Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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  19. Diluted-biscuit

    Diluted-biscuit Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Doesn’t feel like it in mine!
     
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  20. wastwater

    wastwater Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Last edited: Apr 19, 2019

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