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CBT repackaged or a novel treatment? The Lightning Process compared with UK specialist medical care for paediatric [CFS], 2021, Anderson et al

Discussion in 'Psychosomatic research - ME/CFS and Long Covid' started by Andy, Jul 5, 2021.

  1. Trish

    Trish Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    51,871
    Location:
    UK
    So someone should write to the University and ask them to take this stuff about LP down, on the grounds that the NICE guideline specifically warns against LP.
     
    FMMM1, EzzieD, MSEsperanza and 7 others like this.
  2. Sean

    Sean Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    7,044
    Location:
    Australia
    They are utterly without shame, concern, or remorse.

    Anybody who thinks the criticism of them is harsh has not understood the problem.

    They are not only not being held to proper account, they are being actively rewarded for their wilful negligence and misconduct.
     
    ukxmrv, EzzieD, MSEsperanza and 5 others like this.
  3. daftasabrush

    daftasabrush Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    189
    yes two of them are LP practioners as disclosed at the bottom
     
  4. daftasabrush

    daftasabrush Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    189
    Acceptance and Commitment Therapy is a firm of CBT but a new wave of it.
     
    Peter Trewhitt and Sean like this.
  5. daftasabrush

    daftasabrush Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    189
    What's the issue with the journal @davetuller - who is involved?

    I think it important that this does not go unchallenged - including the fact that they studied adults and children yet are drawing a conclusion for adults, the Ethics breech of a study in children for a therapy not proven save in adults plus the ridiculous claim that a third of tens don't recover on existing treatment - implying 67% do recover on CBT and GET - even if you do accept the extremely dodgy initial PACE TRIAL results that only concluded 22% Moderately improved.

    I think it important to check who paid the publication fee

    Can we clarify which are LP practioners? Can a letter be written to the journal asking WHO they are - I have never seen a disclosure that did not say exactly who was making the disclosure before and I think it essential to get this on record. I saw Fiona Finch disclosed she was, is Phil Parker the other?


    Disclosure statement

    Two co-authors are LP practitioners and so have a financial interest in the LP. None of the other authors have any conflicts of interest to report.
     
    Starlight, rvallee and Peter Trewhitt like this.
  6. Snow Leopard

    Snow Leopard Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    3,819
    Location:
    Australia

    Yes, CBT is definitely an umbrella term and more specific terminology should be used to describe specific forms of therapies for illnesses.

    Technically even Graded Exercise Therapy is a form of CBT.
     
    FMMM1, bobbler, ukxmrv and 4 others like this.
  7. rvallee

    rvallee Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    12,299
    Location:
    Canada
    When a known mafioso sits at a table and everyone greets them warmly, it may not be a group of mafiosos, but it's definitely a group that is comfortable with mafiosos.

    I'm definitely not comparing the researchers to mafiosos, but when scientists choose to work in cooperation with people who have clear financial conflicts of interest, they are OK with those conflicts influencing the outcome. The idea that people who come up or promote a wildly overhyped subjective medical treatment should have anything to do with testing it is insane. There should be a strong separation with some unbiased academics acting as independent investigators, otherwise this is basically like a prosecutor investigating themselves for corruption.

    In software development, for example, quality assurance is an entirely different department and they make up their own procedures based on documentation from the development team, analysts and product design. Everything is verified independently, if this is the norm in software development it should definitely be the case in medicine.

    Although of course the giant loophole here is that once you de-medicalize a disease, none of those requirements apply. Even though it still has the full coercing force of medicine. Yay for nightmarish Catch-22's.
     
    Sean, EzzieD, alktipping and 4 others like this.
  8. daftasabrush

    daftasabrush Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    189
    Buried in paragraph 3 of methods. Not in the conflicts of interest by name as it should be.
    This was supplemented by observations made by the lead author shadowing a three-day course (June 2018)1 and discussions with LP practitioners – two of whom are co-authors (PP, FF). ​
     

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