1. Sign our petition calling on Cochrane to withdraw their review of Exercise Therapy for CFS here.
    Dismiss Notice
  2. Guest, the 'News in Brief' for the week beginning 22nd April 2024 is here.
    Dismiss Notice
  3. Welcome! To read the Core Purpose and Values of our forum, click here.
    Dismiss Notice

Can psychiatry make medicine better? Michael Sharpe, 29 Nov 2022

Discussion in 'General ME/CFS news' started by Sly Saint, Oct 12, 2022.

  1. NelliePledge

    NelliePledge Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    13,308
    Location:
    UK West Midlands
    I note it says he will be making the Adolf Meyer memorial lecture in San Francisco in May.
     
    Arvo, Hutan and Peter Trewhitt like this.
  2. JemPD

    JemPD Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    3,989
    i wonder which trials he will be discussing....?
     
    Trish and Peter Trewhitt like this.
  3. Solstice

    Solstice Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    1,172
    Doubt it has much impact outside the usual circles. But I am blissfully unaware of a lot of things in the world so I'll wait and see.
     
    Hutan, Peter Trewhitt and RedFox like this.
  4. Sly Saint

    Sly Saint Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    9,590
    Location:
    UK
    Peter Trewhitt likes this.
  5. rvallee

    rvallee Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    12,481
    Location:
    Canada
    It's established despite zero evidence of usefulness.

    One of Sharpe's paper: https://www.s4me.info/threads/the-e...mized-trials-2021-toynbee-sharpe-et-al.20568/
    And since evidence is required for something, not against, then clearly this mumbojumbo has been established without any actual evidence. In fact the only conclusion is that it's not useful, but somehow in medical research aspirational marketing is OK.

    Of course "working", "effective" or "useful" are just a matter of perception. It has certainly worked very well for people like Sharpe, is effective at creating careers that accomplish nothing and get rewarded for clearly political reasons.

    So very much in the biopsychosocial tradition: useless to patients, beloved by professionals. Which really shows how disconnected from reality modern healthcare is. Perception matters more than reality.
     
    RedFox, EzzieD, bobbler and 5 others like this.
  6. Sly Saint

    Sly Saint Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    9,590
    Location:
    UK
    Studies Showing Psychiatry's Value to Medically Ill Patients Needed, Says Award Lecturer

    https://www.psychnews.org/alert_AM2023_3k.html


    eta:
    https://twitter.com/user/status/1661130046105350146


    "robust clinical trials" hah.
     
  7. Arvo

    Arvo Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    838
    This clicks perfectly into my research, thank you @Sly Saint.

    If anyone gets a hold on the full lecture (text or video), please DM me. I'd be very grateful.

    I'll keep an eye on this thread of course, but am currently trying to recover from overload and worsening health, so not keeping up.
     
    DokaGirl, EzzieD, Sly Saint and 5 others like this.
  8. Trish

    Trish Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    52,387
    Location:
    UK
    How dare he tell such lies about ME/CFS. HOW ******* DARE HE.
     
  9. Solstice

    Solstice Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    1,172
    Makes money of it and we can't really fight back. Morals don't come into it.
     
    Lou B Lou, DokaGirl, EzzieD and 10 others like this.
  10. Hoopoe

    Hoopoe Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    5,255
    PACE is one of the best examples they could find? That says volumes.
     
    DokaGirl, EzzieD, Sean and 6 others like this.
  11. Charles B.

    Charles B. Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    247
    I’m sure this was all met with thunderous applause. Did any recycled tropes about feral militant activists make their way into the lecture?
     
    DokaGirl, EzzieD, Missense and 5 others like this.
  12. Peter Trewhitt

    Peter Trewhitt Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    3,677
    The study cited above:

    is not the PACE trial which was first published in 2011. Interesting that Sharpe should cite an earlier and smaller study.
     
    DokaGirl, Sean, RedFox and 7 others like this.
  13. MSEsperanza

    MSEsperanza Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    2,864
    Location:
    betwixt and between
    Interestingly, it's not PACE they reference but this study from 1996:

    https://www.bmj.com/content/312/7022/22

    Also interesting to see all the responses and letters thoroughly criticizing the study.


    Edit: cross-posted with Peter
     
    EzzieD, Sean, RedFox and 6 others like this.
  14. Trish

    Trish Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    52,387
    Location:
    UK
    He seems to be conflating the earlier study which only compared CBT with standard medical care, and PACE which included the 4 groups he describes.
    The earlier study used Oxford criteria, the control group were just given their diagnosis and advised to keep increasing their activity, then nothing. The treatment group seemed to be focused largely on persuading them to change their illness beliefs and they had weekly one hour sessions for 5 months.

    Edit: To be fair, it may be the person who wrote the article about the lecture who has conflated the two trials.
     
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2023
  15. rvallee

    rvallee Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    12,481
    Location:
    Canada
    Yikes. If that's all it takes. Dude just described what he hoped to achieve as if it actually achieved it, and that's good for them.

    If psychiatry could make medicine better, I think it had more than enough time to prove it. There is no "if" anymore. Especially when the award cites the cycle of formulaic BS trials as an achievement, when it's only a matter of time before the paradigm is retired entirely.
     
    Mithriel, EzzieD, Arnie Pye and 3 others like this.
  16. Arvo

    Arvo Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    838
    It gets even better - when Sly Saint posted the notice in February, I looked up the specifics of the award (I wanted to know its origin) and noticed the criteria for nomination:

    "Self-nominations and nominations by a colleague are accepted."

    I have no idea who nominated him, but I could totally see Sharpe nominating himself, and I amuse myself with the thought. :laugh:
     
  17. dave30th

    dave30th Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    2,249
    I felt a chill in the air over the weekend of the APA meeting in San Francisco. Luckily, I managed not to see Professor Sharpe's talk--costs $$ to get into the conference. I assumed that was likely the reporter's mistake. Sharpe is proud of PACE and no reason from his perspective not to cite it favorably.
     
  18. DokaGirl

    DokaGirl Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    3,664
    I would like to know what the BPS definition of "activity" is.

    Do they use a narrow definition? Is it just about going to the gym, and vigorous exercise such as jogging, cycling, swimming etc.? In other words, having a sporty lifestyle.

    Many pwME do activities, out of necessity, and maybe for enjoyment as well. Someone has to wash those dishes. Light housework is an activity some pwME do. Someone has to do it, and circumstances may dictate it is the pwME.

    If we were all afraid of, and didn't engage in
    "activities", there might be less crashes/Post Exertional Malaise.

    I know for myself, I have to engage in activities that may, or will cause PEM, but often there is no choice but to do them. And, even pacing will not eliminate the PEM.

    I am tired of the BPS'ers thinking we don't know what's best for us. They don't understand ME at all.
     
    RedFox, EzzieD, Lou B Lou and 7 others like this.
  19. Sly Saint

    Sly Saint Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    9,590
    Location:
    UK
  20. Solstice

    Solstice Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    1,172
    The president bit feels a bit like that time in high school where we got to elect members of the student board of the school. 6 applicants for 5 spots and 9 people turned out to vote. Yes you're governing the student board, but it isn't really an accomplishment I'd boast about.
     
    Arnie Pye, EzzieD, RedFox and 4 others like this.

Share This Page